Copper bullet for bear ?

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zherock

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This year i really want to try federal trophy copper meat eater for my bear hunt. I find the 180 gr (i know i should lower to 160 but its what i find and probably shoot to 30 to 50 yards only.)

My question : its this bullet will be too hard for a bear and only do a pass thrue like a FMJ ? Some one tell me that and now , im affraid to shoot with this ammo

Last year, ive shot federal trophy bounded 3006 180 gr with good result but i really want to give a try to copper
 
Shot my Black Bear (Nimpkish Valley BC) broadside right shoulder, through the heart and out the other side.
50yrds tops and he dropped right there using Nosler Partion 180 grn.
They are not copper bullets, but I am sure your choice will provide very good stopping power for Yogi bear .
Good Hunting.
Rob
 
I shoot 235g tsx in my 375.
I retained one bullet from a bear brodside at 200yrds.
Hit one shoulder and the spine. Found on the far side hide.
Picture perfect expansion and retained 234.9g.

I am planning to switch all my guns over to Barnes tsx/ttsx.

Not that I have had a issues with interlocks/partitions or seirra game kings.
 
Question:

Copper has half the density of lead.

Diameter is fixed by the cartridge, and they are all pointy-ish cylinders, so mass reduces to a function of length.

If I change from all-lead to all-copper I can have a bullet which is the same length and half the weight, or one that is twice the length and the same weight (or somewhere in-between).

But the rifling twist rate can only stabilize up to a certain length.

Are commercial rifles made with a higher-than-needed twist rate?

Or do people shooting copper bullets buy special high-twist barrels?

Or do they just accept that they're shooting 100gr instead of 180gr and keep the ranges short?
 
i find mono's very effective at close range. the faster the better. in a 30 06 i would use 150 grn and get the speed up. i use 139 grn in 7 mag. they open very well at close range. this years bear at about 40 yrds and dropped to the ground and was dead in under a minute.
 
My experience is contrary to the conventional wisdom that bears are tough and take a lot of power to put them down. Maybe I have been lucky, but my first bear was down after a very short dash through a hay field, a single shot with a 130 gr cup and core from a 270 Win at 200 yards. Since that seemed to work so well, I just kept using it.

Fifty years of hunting and guiding and many bears later, using everything from 243 Win to 30-30 to 375 Chatfield Taylor, it is my opinion they are no harder to kill than deer. There is no question that lots of velocity and expansion results in quick death on bears, both blacks and grizzly.

Having said that, It has also been my experience that if you want monometal bullets to really work, try to break a lot of bone.

I'm sure you will enjoy the best on your bear hunt. Just put whatever bullet you use in the right place.

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Many are hit too far back.
Ted
 

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I shot an average size black bear last spring with my 7mm-08 using 120gr Barnes TTSX at roughly 60 yards and had a through and through. Bear went 20yards tops and went head over heels and died. Only reason I know the bullet opened up was I found a petal from the bullet under the hide on the far side.
 
Rayleigh_Scattering said:
Question:

Copper has half the density of lead.

Diameter is fixed by the cartridge, and they are all pointy-ish cylinders, so mass reduces to a function of length.

If I change from all-lead to all-copper I can have a bullet which is the same length and half the weight, or one that is twice the length and the same weight (or somewhere in-between).

But the rifling twist rate can only stabilize up to a certain length.

Are commercial rifles made with a higher-than-needed twist rate?

Or do people shooting copper bullets buy special high-twist barrels?

Or do they just accept that they're shooting 100gr instead of 180gr and keep the ranges short?
Click to expand...

Half the density? That doesn't seem right at all?

A quick google search says Copper is 8940 kg/m^3, while lead is 11343 kg/m^3. 8940/11343=0.788... So Copper should be just shy of 80% of the density of lead, not 50%.
 
Rayleigh_Scattering said:
Question:

Copper has half the density of lead.

Diameter is fixed by the cartridge, and they are all pointy-ish cylinders, so mass reduces to a function of length.

If I change from all-lead to all-copper I can have a bullet which is the same length and half the weight, or one that is twice the length and the same weight (or somewhere in-between).

But the rifling twist rate can only stabilize up to a certain length.

Are commercial rifles made with a higher-than-needed twist rate?

Or do people shooting copper bullets buy special high-twist barrels?

Or do they just accept that they're shooting 100gr instead of 180gr and keep the ranges short?
Click to expand...

Your hunting bullets (unless of the cast variety) aren't "all lead" they are a lead core inside a copper jacket. So the copper jacket takes up a percentage of the bullet diameter already so it's not 100% lead to 100% copper, probably closer to 80% or 90% lead if I had to guess, depending on calibre and bullet construction. If you look up the barnes bullets and GMX bullets vs traditional cup and core bullets, yes the copper will be a little longer than the same weight cup and core in a given calibre, but no where near twice the length.

Some manufacturers are making faster twist barrels to accommodate heavier bullets but this goes for both cup and core and all copper. Even some heavy for calibre lead bullets are too long (and heavy) to stabilize in traditional barrel twists. More and more manufacturers are making faster twist barrel aoptions to allow stabilization of longer bullets, whether for composition or ballistic purposes.

As far as hunting cartridges and traditional bullet weights though, you are unlikely to have an issue with stability for the most part but may find the odd case where you need to drop down in bullet weight, but we are talking 10gr to 20grs, not half...
 
I’ve shot my 8 bears with copper, each and every one of them.. furthest went maybe 50 yards?

Ranging from 90grain GMX from a 6mm to 165 gr solid coppper round nose hollow point out of a .308 (my new favourite bear medicine). Most have been bang flops inside 100 yards.
 
Rayleigh_Scattering said:
Question:

Copper has half the density of lead.

Diameter is fixed by the cartridge, and they are all pointy-ish cylinders, so mass reduces to a function of length.

If I change from all-lead to all-copper I can have a bullet which is the same length and half the weight, or one that is twice the length and the same weight (or somewhere in-between).

But the rifling twist rate can only stabilize up to a certain length.

Are commercial rifles made with a higher-than-needed twist rate?

Or do people shooting copper bullets buy special high-twist barrels?

Or do they just accept that they're shooting 100gr instead of 180gr and keep the ranges short?
Click to expand...

Go bigger for caliber my friend.
If one is using 30 caliber and for example Nosler bullets of the 180 grn one would go to 200 or 220 grn bullets in a copper (monometal) bullet.
And it is a learning curve because not all guns like those heavier bullets.
Rob
 
FLHTCUI said:
Go bigger for caliber my friend.
If one is using 30 caliber and for example Nosler bullets of the 180 grn one would go to 200 or 220 grn bullets in a copper (monometal) bullet.
And it is a learning curve because not all guns like those heavier bullets.
Rob
Click to expand...

What? I think you've got that backwards? Don't people tend to drop a bullet weight or two, not go up? As in, if you normally shoot 180gr lead bullets, drop to a 165 copper?
 
Well slick my hair back and call me Francisco Scaramanga!

I glow red with embarrassment for not checking my sources. I was using the density of gold instead of that of lead.

So, yeah, a bit longer at the same mass but probably not enough to prevent stability unless it was already marginal.
 
this is a test done in Great Britain where they tested non-lead bullets in various calibers from several manufacturers on 350 deer. I don't think you need to worry about the bullet failing to open, especially with the tipped rounds that have the plastic tip. most seem to drop down in bullet weight for the added velocity to help offset the lack of fragmentation.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ME9wnU8VKZw
 
My experience - two bears - Both fell to .308 150 gr Barnes TTSX - one which drilled right through his shoulder and into his vitals and lodged in the far shoulder all in one piece. Dead right there. The other clean double lung pass through, ran 30 meters and dropped dead. Exit hole indicated perfect expansion.

And last seasons buddy's deer - 60m shot at a buck, shooting 30-06 180gr. barnes TTSX. Pass through, caught the far shoulder on the way out, literally bowled the animal over. Dead right there.

Barnes TTSX are all we hunt with now.

Full confidence in the copper; No lead fragments in the meat; More effective on / through bone. If in any doubt re: expansion get a round with a polymer tip that helps initiate like the TTSX.
 
The only reason to drop a bit of weight from the bullet is that at the same weight bullet the monometal has additional displacement in the case eating up room you need for powder, assuming the same ogive and bullet profile. If you lose the powder, you will lose velocity and maybe be too slow for a monometal to perform. Going up would be nice, but only if you have the case capacity to support it.
 
Why not? said:
My experience is contrary to the conventional wisdom that bears are tough and take a lot of power to put them down. Maybe I have been lucky, but my first bear was down after a very short dash through a hay field, a single shot with a 130 gr cup and core from a 270 Win at 200 yards. Since that seemed to work so well, I just kept using it.

Fifty years of hunting and guiding and many bears later, using everything from 243 Win to 30-30 to 375 Chatfield Taylor, it is my opinion they are no harder to kill than deer. There is no question that lots of velocity and expansion results in quick death on bears, both blacks and grizzly.

Having said that, It has also been my experience that if you want monometal bullets to really work, try to break a lot of bone.

I'm sure you will enjoy the best on your bear hunt. Just put whatever bullet you use in the right place.

View attachment 493634

Many are hit too far back.
Ted
Click to expand...


Well said. The presence of teeth and claws does not make them any harder to kill. They are not armor plated. Most of my bear have fallen to either the 30-30 or the 308, with standard cup and core. Nothing fancier than the Hornady Interlock.

Just put it in the right place.

Not saying the fancy bullet won't work, they do. And the modern copper bullets work well. Just need to be cautious of the first ones that were marketed, and that's where all the "pencilled through" stories come from.
 
FLHTCUI said:
Go bigger for caliber my friend.
If one is using 30 caliber and for example Nosler bullets of the 180 grn one would go to 200 or 220 grn bullets in a copper (monometal) bullet.
And it is a learning curve because not all guns like those heavier bullets.
Rob
Click to expand...

Definitely backwards... With solid coppers you generally go down in weight as they are longer and retain near 100% of weight. Going down in weight will also increase velocity which means greater expansion.
 
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