Corrosive Ammo In Brass Case Not Reloadable? And Steel Cases in General

thegazelle

thegazelle

CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Super GunNutz
Rating - 100%
63   0   0
Location
Ontario
Hi, quick question for all...

I recently came into a fairly large amount of what I thought was non-corrosive 308 Winchester brass cased surplus. Based on some quick research, it turns out to be Sellier and Bellot (CZ) surplus from 1979.

Well, it turns out it is indeed corrosive. I took them to the range with me yesterday, shot about 20-30 rounds out of my new Savage Axis 2, and then went home, had dinner, put the kids to bed and then took the bolt out and inspected everything. Bolt seemed ok...kind of dirty...but then I shone my flashlight into the chamber and breech face. There was already specs of orange and blotches of what obviously is the beginning of corrosion starting. Not even 6 hours later! Thankfully, the Axis 2 is easy to take apart and I ran a kettle of hot water into the breech and chamber and then after it cooled down (took forever), I ran some dry patches through and then some CLP soaked patches to protect everything. The breech face looked much better and while I haven't checked it today, I am pretty sure I was able to get all the salts out.

My question now is really two fold, with the second question I will just piggy back here...

I have some casings left, but apparently I read because they are surplus, likely they are "berdan primed" and even though it is a steel case, it is not reloadable. I am not sure why, since I am neither a reloader nor am I knowledgeable on any of this. Any feedback would be welcome.

But also more to the general point - I have been keeping all my steel casings (doesn't matter if it's the copper washed Chinese stuff or the lacquer covered Russian stuff), knowing that they are not reloadable (again I don't know why but I haven't really spent a lot of time looking into it either). Is there any value in keeping the steel cases? I see almost all fellow range club members discard the steel cases in the bins. I happen to keep mine, thinking maybe there is some value in doing so, but if there's not, I may just toss them away rather than just have them take up space.

I am curious about the Win308 brass surplus cases that apparently are not reloadable. If it's the way the primer is set, can the primer not be replaced with the normal kind of primer for these casings? I am unfortunately a bit ignorant on this topic so any feedback would be welcome. Thanks!
 
Oh I see...so the berdan and boxer primers are not interchangeable. Are the Berdan primers easy to find? I am not a reloader (yet) so this is all new to me.

So I guess the brass is worth keeping just in case (no pun intended). I would presume that the steel casings (ie. Norinco copper wash or Barnaul laquer) not worth keeping.
 
Berdan primers were NOT easy to find, here in Western Manitoba - I think the brands that were available, often originated from Russia (?). I think Berdan primers come in MANY more sizes than we are used to with Boxer primers. I never replaced Berdan primers - is (was) a tool from RCBS that would pierce and lever out the fired primer - from the outside of the case - I suspect there was other tools made for that job - but for sure NOT the same tooling as we use on conventional boxer primed brass cases.

Some irony - perhaps an aside - Berdan was an American guy; Boxer was a British guy - or possibly European.

There was a thing at one time - using a punch - to swage down that Berdan "anvil" and to close up those two Berdan flash holes - then a central Boxer sized flash hole drilled - then a sleeve inserted to allow Boxer sized primers to be pressed into that modified primer pocket - I had bought some milsurp 8x57JS - maybe was from Portugal (?) - they fired off fine - but that commotion to re-prime pretty much stopped me from re-loading them - was too easy, at the time, to just buy a couple bags of PPU brass cases with Boxer primer pockets for reloading. I have no clue how well or what pressure that swaged / modified Berdan case would hold - someone would likely have to be pretty desperate to get a case to go "bang", to go through that.

As far as the cases - I have only reloaded brass cases - and I am aware that the "brass" has changed from 50 years ago - different alloy, different heat treat, etc. - however most reloading references that I have, say that reloading steel cases can not (or maybe should not) be done, although I read of people who have done that - will need to hear from them how to do so - I seriously doubt there is much to be gained to attempt to reload Berdan primed steel cases, if Boxer primed brass cases are available?
 
Last edited:
I have reloaded 6.5x55 and .303 with .217 and .250 Berdan primers, respectively. Do-able, but less convenient.
 
Does anyone know if Berdan primers are available that are not corrosive? Or due to the nature/origin, they will be.
 
Any modern Berdans are going to be non-corrosive. RWS is one manufacturer. There has not been a regular commercial supply for years.
 
Go here: https://ammo.com/primer-type/berdan

I can not speak to the truthfulness or reliability of that information - but seems to match up with other things I have read - so their take is that MOST Berdan primers are corrosive, but does not have to be. Also note their comment that most American made ammo - prior to 1920's - likely used corrosive primers - is much evidence of that here in a couple of "boy's rifles" - .22 Long Rifle - from 19-teens era - bores are very much "rotted out" - I do not know for sure, but plenty of evidence to me that corrosive primed ammo was used in them for decades - without adequate cleaning - likely that ammo was cheap to buy - so likely why it was so commonly used.
 
For a common cartridge like 308, I would not go through the hassle of trying to find berdan primers or the process to convert berdan primer pockets to boxer primed. If it was a less common calibre, I would for sure entertain the idea, but 308 brass is everywhere and if you are just looking for making plinking rounds in the future, cheap 308 brass is easy to come by
 
Canadammo and Tradex have both stocked Berdan primers in the past. Neither currently exist so that is what little help I can offer unfortunately. It's really not worth the effort unless you have something rare and .308 is not rare. Trade or sell your ammo..?
 
Thanks everyone. I appreciate everyone's feedback in helping me make the decision not to pursue keeping these berdan primed cases. I did look at the 308 brass available everywhere on the secondary market and agree, it's probably time better spent buying that boxer primed brass.

I guess as an aside, and in general, there is little value in keeping steel cases...
 
Yeah not worth keeping steel cases unless you’re already taking volume scrap metal to the metal recycler’s or are doing some kind of smelting as a hobby. I’ve got a buddy that does this with aluminum and brass, he takes all the brass cases that nobody wants and makes clean brass ingots.
 
Butcherbill said:
Yeah not worth keeping steel cases unless you’re already taking volume scrap metal to the metal recycler’s or are doing some kind of smelting as a hobby. I’ve got a buddy that does this with aluminum and brass, he takes all the brass cases that nobody wants and makes clean brass ingots.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I would imagine that I would need a couple of tonnes of it in order to make it worth their while...I know that there are metal recyclers who will buy scrap metal, but as you indicated, on a volume quantity level, not a few thousand steel cases level.
 
I would take your Berdan Brass if you don't want it. Reloading Berdan is a hobby unto itself, I reloaded Swiss GP11, haven't in a while but I still have some primers to get back to it when I decide to shoot the Swiss again. Which may be pretty soon, judging by ammo and component prices and availability. I got my Primers from Henry at Budget Shooter Supply, but it was years ago, they are Tulammo so I believe they are embargoed now.

Edit: I was also going to mention in case it hasn't been already - the main reason people don't reload steel is that they don't want it buggering up their dies since the steel is much less pliable. May be an issue for the same reason when it comes to crimping and trimming etc., it's just too hard to work with.
 
Last edited:
Gatehouse said:
First thing I would do is to make sure they actually are Berdan primed. There is a good chance they are but it's also possible they are not.
Click to expand...

I shone a flashlight into the empty casing and see two holes...apparently that is the sign it is berdan primed, as opposed to the single hole for boxer. But I could be mistaken in my understanding.
 
thegazelle said:
But also more to the general point - I have been keeping all my steel casings (doesn't matter if it's the copper washed Chinese stuff or the lacquer covered Russian stuff), knowing that they are not reloadable (again I don't know why but I haven't really spent a lot of time looking into it either). Is there any value in keeping the steel cases? I see almost all fellow range club members discard the steel cases in the bins. I happen to keep mine, thinking maybe there is some value in doing so, but if there's not, I may just toss them away rather than just have them take up space.
Click to expand...

Barnaul steel cases are actually reloadable, there are a few videos on youtube on this topic. They use Lee dies and of course you need Berdan primers and tools to work with them. But they can be reloaded multiple times. Not that you want to do that in Canada (why?) but it is doable in principle.
 
thegazelle said:
Thanks everyone. I appreciate everyone's feedback in helping me make the decision not to pursue keeping these berdan primed cases. I did look at the 308 brass available everywhere on the secondary market and agree, it's probably time better spent buying that boxer primed brass.

I guess as an aside, and in general, there is little value in keeping steel cases...
Click to expand...

they make nice leather or gasket punches
yes 2 hole tell you they are berdan primers , I have reloaded a few rounds that where unavailable, but for common stuff, not worth the bother
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom