Corrosive Ammo, Is It Okay to Rinse But Not Clean?
- Thread starter qiu_lijie
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- Nova Scotia
I just modified my laundry sink faucet with a long hose, that I just stick the muzzle into the drain and stuff the hose in the chamber, turn on the hot water and walk away for a few mins.
Picked up off kijiji, a compressor for 20$ that I just blow away the water, and oil.
Picked up off kijiji, a compressor for 20$ that I just blow away the water, and oil.
Ammonia doesn't do a thing to prevent corrosion. It's the WATER in the WINDEX that does the job. However, the very mild Ammonia may help to loosen up the jacket fouling in the bore.
I have an old galvanized metal funnel, with one flat side and an "S" curve spout. It was NOS, appx 40 years ago, along with another 20 or so, in a cardboard box full of them, that was headed for the bin, during a clean up at the old Chilliwack Army base. I asked if I could grab one and was given permission to take it.
This may not seem like much of a boon, but every one of the funnels in that box had to be accounted for and signed off on. As we all know, after being in a box for 40+ years, such things will go amiss and especially as it wasn't in a dangerous category and headed for the dump/surplus contractor, one more or less wouldn't be an issue.
This type of funnel was used all over the world by armorers in one form or another, to pour supposedly boiling water down the bores of rifles, that had just shot corrosive primed ammo, through the chamber end of course. No hoses involved, but likely a good pair of insulated gloves.
I have spoken with more than a few old REMEs about this practice, well into the late 1950s and even later, depending on where they were stationed.
I asked them how important it was to use hot or even boiling water to clean the corrosive elements from the bores.
Every one of them gave me the crooked eye, because they seldom used boiling/hot water, mostly because it wasn't readily available. They did use water in copius amounts though at whatever temperature available to them.
One thing they all did, before pouring water down the bores was to run a brass brush down the bore a couple of times. This helped to loosen things up, for the water to do its job and take less time to do it. When you're cleaning a couple of hundred rifles, time is definitely a factor. Especially when they're scheduled for use the next morning.
This wasn't just with Canadian REMEs. It was pretty widespread and in some areas of the world, where corrosive ammunition is still standard issue, likely still goes on.
The hot water was used mostly to heat up the metal, so that the moisture left behind from the rinse would evaporate quickly and if more cleaning was needed, it could happen or a light oil film could be applied, depending on when the rifle was going to be used again.
If the rifles were range rifles, used for training purposes only, they didn't even get the bores oiled, just a clean patch run through to make sure all was dry for the next morning. Barracks rifles were always oiled before going back into the racks.
Things are likely much different now, but we're discussing the way things were done, when corrosive ammo was the norm.
Sadly, the old funnel I have will likely end up in a landfill site or in a mechanics shop, to be used for unique purposes, after I'm gone.
When I was still in elementary school, we were privileged to have an Army band come to the school and regale us with their music. It was great. They did martial music as well as current popular music. We all loved it.
There were two unique instruments that were played, which I really enjoyed. One was a Lee Enfield No4, with a Trumpet mouth piece in its bore and the other was one of the funnels I described, with a mouth piece jammed into the spout.
I'm getting off topic. Sorry.
Good clean water, with no additives will do the job of dissolving the salts as well as anything, maybe better than a liquid with other things to inhibit emusification of the salts? A good light oil will handle rusting that may happen from the ambient humidity.
This doesn't mean that you should just jam the rifle back into the safe and forget about it. Check it out after a couple of days to make sure the offending salts have been fully flushed, because even if the bore has been oiled, that stuff is pervasive and will cause pitting/rust.
I like to clean my bores as quickly after shooting corrosive as possible. Sometimes that isn't an option for a couple of days, especially when I was still in the labor force.
When I had the chance the bore would be wiped down with a clean patch to check if any salts were active. If I found any rust streaks, the bore would get another water treatment, wipe down and coated with oil again. This was usually enough, even with rifles with pitted bores. Not always though.
I usually go back a month or so after the last cleaning I was satisfied with to check the bore again.
I've been caught at this though. Once was embarrassing. It was an M41 Swede, that I had put into the back of the safe, feeling secure that I had done the job properly.
I took that rifle to a Vernon Gun Show and sold it to a fellow I like a lot. He came back and very politely informed me that there was rust in the bore.
I asked him to take the rifle to Everett Godfrey, a Wipe Out distributor from Vancouver Island, to clean the bore and come back. It turned out that the rust was just a very light surface coat and came off without issue. I still gave that young fellow a discount on the price and learned later that the rifle shot well for him.
That was just the luck of the draw. I've pulled rifles out of safes that looked to be excellent on the outside, with clean bolts etc. The bores were toast. You can't fix pits.
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did i just sat thru a campfire side chat? lol. it was nice listening to old stories. funnels were before my time as a rceme.
dont landfill those funnels, put them up for sale on EE. im sure some of us would love to use them after shooting corrosives.
I was only allowed to take one. I have no idea where the rest of them went to.
I've seen the odd one for sale at gunshows, depending on condition, $20-$40
I'm sorry for the long posts, I get carried away with reminiscing at times.
Us young guys appreciate the stories and the knowledge.
I haven't had much luck with any method of not cleaning after corrosive. Including removing all the powder fouling and oiling but not removing the layers of copper and powder fouling trapped underneath in the bore. Nowadays my preffered method is a full cleaning. All powder, copper and carbon from the bore. If it's not pitted I just oil it, no water. For action parts I spray with MPro7 gun cleaner (same #### as hoppes, use whatever you like) then scrub with a nylon brush. Bronze brush for any tough spots and baked on carbon. Rinse parts in the sink thoroughly then dry and oil. Not a damn thing rusts no matter how long it sits.
Many people just don't realize that for every layer of jacket fouling, there is a layer of carbon,etc fouling.
A rinse/oil just isn't enought to do the job properly. Jacket fouling and what's hidden underneath it is just as important to remove.
The armorers of days gone by, fully realized this and cleaned accordingly. Back in the day, they used an ammonia/water/alcohol mix to remove jacket fouling.
The ammonia mix is nasty stuff and will ruin the finish on both plastic and wood stocks.
Sweet's 7.62, is an example of a modern version of the old recipe.
A rinse/oil just isn't enought to do the job properly. Jacket fouling and what's hidden underneath it is just as important to remove.
The armorers of days gone by, fully realized this and cleaned accordingly. Back in the day, they used an ammonia/water/alcohol mix to remove jacket fouling.
The ammonia mix is nasty stuff and will ruin the finish on both plastic and wood stocks.
Sweet's 7.62, is an example of a modern version of the old recipe.
Using a funnel and pouring a full kettle of boiling water down the bore makes the job fast and easy. The funnel protects the stock from spills. The boiling water heats up the barrel enough that when you stand it in the corner for a bit all of the remaining moisture will evaporate away in minutes. Spray & swab once with WD-40 to be safe and then clean the same as you would with other non-corrosive ammo.
SKS cleaning pics
Just a side-note here. After the last couple range trips I let my SKS 'rest' before cleaning . . . first time I waited 3 days and 2nd time 5 days. Although there was some surface rust in the barrel and gas tube it cleaned up OK. That may or may not mean anything re pitting. This is a 51 Tula so it already has a good bit of pitting and I've only had this one since last fall. I've got the first pic from just after I bought it last Fall and the condition hasn't changed noticeably since then - pic 2. It still has some carbon that needs to come out, that shows as black dots which are the pits. After a hot water rinse I cleaned with Boretech C-4 and then Hoppes Copper cleaner and Rem-40x 'liquid-clay' polish. Needs more C4 and a new brush. The first pic is cleaner !
It's in a Tapco stock and I haven't put a scope on and still dialing in irons but 2-3" at 50, about 6" at 100 and 9" at 180. I don't think I can shoot much better w/o a scope, tho I'm still trying.
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Just a side-note here. After the last couple range trips I let my SKS 'rest' before cleaning . . . first time I waited 3 days and 2nd time 5 days. Although there was some surface rust in the barrel and gas tube it cleaned up OK. That may or may not mean anything re pitting. This is a 51 Tula so it already has a good bit of pitting and I've only had this one since last fall. I've got the first pic from just after I bought it last Fall and the condition hasn't changed noticeably since then - pic 2. It still has some carbon that needs to come out, that shows as black dots which are the pits. After a hot water rinse I cleaned with Boretech C-4 and then Hoppes Copper cleaner and Rem-40x 'liquid-clay' polish. Needs more C4 and a new brush. The first pic is cleaner !
It's in a Tapco stock and I haven't put a scope on and still dialing in irons but 2-3" at 50, about 6" at 100 and 9" at 180. I don't think I can shoot much better w/o a scope, tho I'm still trying.
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Thanks for the pics. Regarding your rust observations, do you have an idea the general humidity at the time? Out here in Alberta it can fluctuate a lot throughout the year unlike the wet coast where I grew up. When it is humid I get a good amount of rust in just 24 hrs. That is why I started cleaning anything that fired corrosive as soon as I get home. When it is dry they can sit a lot longer.
S-nova, My gun cabinet (not a safe) is in my basement and I run a de-humidifier year-round. The basement is pretty dry anyway, semi-finished and sealed well, and the de-h keeps it around 40-50% (50ltr d-h fills 3-gal in 2 days). If the de-H is not an option, you could keep a 40W lite bulb in the bottom of your cabinet.
I'm in NB about 20 miles from the coast (and a river 2 miles away) and we go from several days of rain to several w/o any rain - the daily humidity is around 50-60% at this season. We've had several 'fronts' pass thru with storms every couple days and right now 54% outside.
One thing I heard about but Not tried is to get some 'expensive' cat litter that has 'blue crystals' of moisture absorbent. Put some in old nylons and leave loose in cabinet. It can be de-hydrated in the oven at about 150* or so. Don't melt your hose
Maybe regular socks would be a better choice ? Not Sock-boy's style, tho.
I'm in NB about 20 miles from the coast (and a river 2 miles away) and we go from several days of rain to several w/o any rain - the daily humidity is around 50-60% at this season. We've had several 'fronts' pass thru with storms every couple days and right now 54% outside.
One thing I heard about but Not tried is to get some 'expensive' cat litter that has 'blue crystals' of moisture absorbent. Put some in old nylons and leave loose in cabinet. It can be de-hydrated in the oven at about 150* or so. Don't melt your hose
Maybe regular socks would be a better choice ? Not Sock-boy's style, tho.
