cougar defence?

dumbdawg said:
stay out ofthe bars:p
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I was packin' a fistfull of dollars and walked into a beer parlor and within minutes I was nearly pounced on by two old cougars.......best keep yer wallet closed and tight to the chest if ya want my advice.....those old cougars can smell that paper a mile away......best to jingle a little change instead.....lol
 
SignGuy said:
if a couger is intent on eating you you will : a) not know its there, b) not have time to take saftey off, c) not relize it has attacked untill your bleeding out and paralized.
yes there have been "cat" sightings in eastern ontario, the chances of you being thought as prey by one of these is slim to none as they have plenty of easier prey available to them in the wild the commen occerences of cougers attacking humans are usualy due to logging pushing them out of the mountains,lack of natural prey due t obad winter/supply, over devolopment in there natural habitat, or any combination of the previous. these sorts of incidences usualy happen out west in the rockies. and ontario doesnt have near as high a population per acre of wild habitat as they due out west and there food supply is rather large without the need to be bothered with humans. in time *15-20 years* the needed circumstances may arrise to force cougers to openly attack humans as they do outwest but for now you should be safe.

PS mike i guess now is a good time to tell you that there have been 8 witnessed couger sightings where we are going bear hunting eh LOL :p
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I'm actually not worried.. this thread was intended as a joke lol

besides with the size of me all I gotta do is wear a black shirt and walk on all fours and they'd think i was a bear!
 
"...or a nice knife..." Kitty has 20 of 'em plus a bunch of sharp teeth and he's much faster than you'll ever be. Kitty will be eating your innards after dragging your carcass into the bush or up a tree before you'd ever get a knife anywhere near him.
 
You ontario guys have some weird ideas about cougars.

They're sneaky, but lots of guys have driven 'em off or killed them with knives or sticks. It's not that uncommon to see 'em if you're paying even a little attention if they're thinking about stalking you. Sure, they can catch you unawares and charge in before you have time to do much, but then so can bears.
 
My ex-wife's cousin and a buddy of mine where both attacked by mountain lions and in both cases they where out hunting.

The cousin heard a small rock roll down the steep hill that he was walking across in the Kootneys turned around and saw the mountain lion running at him. He was able to shoot it while it was in the air with his 7mm Rem mag rifle.

My buddy who lives in East Gate just outside of Manning Park was hunting for deer in about 8 inches of snow when he found a buck trail. He couldn't understand why he wasn't able to come up on it while he was trailing it when he found that the deer had come full circle and crossed it's original trail.

There where the deer tracks then his tracks and on top of his tracks where mountain lion tracks so he figured it was a waste of time trying to find the deer so he headed back to his truck.

He was about 1/2 way back to his truck when he heard a twig snap behind him so he turned around in the snow and was raising his binoculars when he spotted the huge healthy male mountain lion crouched down with it's ears flat against it's head and its tail twitching like a house cat ready to pounce.

He was able to shoot it when it leaped into the air with his 270 Win Rem 7600 rifle.

He told me that after he cleaned his pants he dragged the mountain lion to his truck and took it home where he contacted the CO's who took it away and wouldn't let him have the hide because he didn't have a tag.

Totally true stories guys... The first happened about 20 years ago and the second was about 10 years ago.
 
Yup, a rifle in your hands and a pistol for backup is the way to go, but as Foxer suggested just fight them off with whatever is available. Fight *hard* so it looks for easier prey. It's surprising how many times unarmed people have managed to change their minds with a stick or even punches as in a recent story.
 
To the "you would be dead before you know it crowd" speak for yourselves. A man with his wits about him is quite capable of turning the tables on a cougar attack even without a firearm just because it could be painful is no reason to lay down & die. Pay attention to your suroundings and you should avoid being completly surprised by wild animals. My ideal weapon for defending against cougar attack (if it were legal) would be 45auto loaded with 230gr speer gold dot hollow points. A walking stick could save you alot of pain, but a long 6"+ razor sharp dagger would be the ticket to assert yourself in a flesh shredding contest.
 
To those praising the 357 sig or the 45 acp these calibers/cartridges are only marginal when it comes too stopping power even on a small mountain lion.

The minimum that I would ever go is the 10mm in a semi auto and a 41 mag in a revolver.

I am licensed to carry handguns in remote areas (ATC) and the smallest caliber/cartridge that I carry is 40 cal/10mm in either a Colt Delta Elite or a G20.

If you are going to carry a handgun carry one that will get the job done not one that might get the job done.....:p
 
Glad to hear you have a great sense of situational awareness...one even higher then a deer.
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Doesn't work like that. Cats methods and genetics are all based on trying to defeat the senses of a deer - much different than ours. They're also keyed to attack on specific movements and keys, it's not uncommon to see one observing a human a long time where they're plainly visible before attacking.

And when they do attack, they're expecting their pray to run. They can 'break cover' a fair ways away, giving you enough time to bring your walking stick into sharp contact with their head :) or just throw something at them (hat, etc - it will startle them). It's not the same as a bear attack at all.

Plus, it'll generally take 'em time to actually kill you. They 'bleed' you with thier claws and try to snap your neck - well we have very short knecks and in the time it takes to cut us up and actually lose enough blood to matter, you can get a belt knife into it's chest and do a lot more damage than kitty is. (that's not a claw - THATS a claw!)

And if you put up a fight, they may back off for a moment to 'think' about this - giving you time to do something (like shoot the bugger, or get your belt-pepper spray, etc).

Even bashing your stick on the ground in front of you as it charges can often make a cat think twice. They're not like grizzlies.
 
I have a buddy who, a couple of years ago, had a cougar come at him on the crouch. Whe my buddy backed away the cougar crept foreward. He finally left without incident. When it happened again the next day he gave it the 3s treatment.
My son and I had one walk up within 30 feet of where we were sitting as we were down wind from it. When it spied us it froze fore a couple of seconds and then took off.
With all these goolies and ghosties and long leggedy beasties out to get us it's a miricale there are not human skelletons struin through out the forest.
 
Camp Cook said:
To those praising the 357 sig or the 45 acp these calibers/cartridges are only marginal when it comes too stopping power even on a small mountain lion.

The minimum that I would ever go is the 10mm in a semi auto and a 41 mag in a revolver.

I am licensed to carry handguns in remote areas (ATC) and the smallest caliber/cartridge that I carry is 40 cal/10mm in either a Colt Delta Elite or a G20.

If you are going to carry a handgun carry one that will get the job done not one that might get the job done.....:p
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Given the average size of the cougars I have seen, 9mm would do the job nicely and 357Sig will do it better.
 
Colin obviously you have never shot a wild animal with a handgun cartridge to give a response like that?

Of course a small caliber or large slow velocity round will kill an animal (I've shot many cows in the neck with a 9mm and everyone of them dropped on the spot) but when you need to stop an adrenalin charged animal that is planning on having you for dinner which means you need to stop/drop it immediately go for a round that will get the job done with 1 shot because that maybe all that you can get. Also don't count on getting to many accurate shots off either while you are trying to defend yourself because it just isn't going to happen.

People that have had to shoot animals in defense with a handgun cartridge like for example "ME" and associate with many people that have also had to defend themselves with a handgun cartridge recommend a minimum of 40 cal/10mm.

Eg; minimum 40 cal, 180gr bullet @ 1200fps... prefered .429 cal 240+grs Gold Dot or hard cast for mountain lions and 270+grs 1200+fps for black bears... .452 cal 300gr @ 1600fps to 395gr @ 1420fps for grizzly country.
 
Though in factory loading 10mm has more ft/lbs if you put a 24lbs recoil spring in 1911 wich has a fully supported chamber you can safely equal ft/lbs with 45 auto and you have a larger diam bigger hole.
 
Calum said:
Glad to hear you have a great sense of situational awareness...one even higher then a deer.
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Enough situational awareness to know not to run away and expose my neck and back but Foxer explains it very well just a couple posts up.
 
alrighty, what about this scenerio.

You have been calling coyotes and because you are in snow camo, he cant see you. You see him first he's close and looking for a meal, now what?


Kiss your a$$ goodbye or shoot shovel shutup?
 
powder burner said:
alrighty, what about this scenerio.

You have been calling coyotes and because you are in snow camo, he cant see you. You see him first he's close and looking for a meal, now what?


Kiss your a$$ goodbye or shoot shovel shutup?
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I would think a warning shot should do.
 
If you give him a warning shot (bullet zipping next to his head) he will be hightailing it out of the area.
 
AOWM said:
Though in factory loading 10mm has more ft/lbs if you put a 24lbs recoil spring in 1911 wich has a fully supported chamber you can safely equal ft/lbs with 45 auto and you have a larger diam bigger hole.
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I have a 6" Barsto barrel in my Colt Delta Elite and a 5" KKM barrel in my G20 both 10mm barrels have supported chambers.

The 45 acp in any loading is anemic as a animal stopper.... yes it has a bigger bullet but it is going so slow that you do not get any kind of stopping performance from it.....

Check with Gunnar from Armco, refer to his info on his 45-08 handgun loads if you are going to meet or surpass 10mm performance you need to do a bit of tweaking too your 1911 by doing what Gunnar suggests and by purchasing some of his 45-08 brass then loading with his suggested data.

Or you could just get a G20 10mm with a legal 10 round mag that performs perfectly everytime.... I trust my life with mine.... My bush loads when bears are out to play are 190gr Sierra FPJ @ 1300fps from my 5" barreled G20 and my winter/mountain lion loads are 200gr Hornady XTP's @ 1280fps.

And when you have a big black bear standing only a few yards in front of you even the mighty G20 10mm with 11 rounds in the gun feels small in my hands.
 
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