Could this possibly be……..

[#4mk1(T)]

Could this possibly be……..

……an un-refurbished Mosin Nagant?
I picked this little gem recently in a trade and just don’t know enough about Mosins to know if this rifle has been refurbished or not. I’ve looked the rifle over from muzzle to butt plate and can’t find the little crossed box refurb mark anywhere but the thing is just in too nice a condition for its age and date of manufacture. I looked the one over on the MKL over on Milsurps.com and they are virtually identical with the exception of mine having the two transverse pins through the back sight base. The text mentions that these pins were installed during refurbishment BUT that they can also be found on late 1941 Izhevsk production. All the parts appear to be Izhevsk marked which adds confusion as I’d expect to find a mixture of maker marks on a refurb. The rifle has the remains of a shellac finish but has a definite oil finish below that. Additionally all serial numbers are punched rather than EP’ed. Anny comments welcome. I’ve blanked the last two digits of the serial number. Now for a few pics:

The one big flaw the butt plate has a but rust area:

 

[dimon]

Quite possibly unrefurbished. I have one like this, its serial # begins with "Г" and it has no transverse pins at the rear sight base, your begins with "Ж", it's a little later production and it might explain pins. Look at the cocking piece: is it rather larger diameter, like M91 or smaller?

 

[Claven2]

IMHO it's a refurb that isn't marked as such. The band inlets and the black paint are all 1960's and 1970's era refurb traits.

 

[desporterizer]

The term refurb drives me nuts as is encompasses everything from rebuilt from a pile of parts to a coat of shellac. What it might be, is a mostly original assembly with some updates & or repairs. I consider what westrifle sells as a refurb, mixmasters renumbered. Drop me a pm when you want to unload it.

 

[bearhunter]

X2 Claven. The rust on the butt plate was never polished off, just blued over.

Still a lovely rifle Mosin though. Take her out on your first date at the range.

 

[desporterizer]

The rust doesnt look blued over.

 

[caramel]

BBQ paint is a sign of refurb, sorry for you... JP.

 

[Claven2]

FWIW, some of these are more overhauled than others. This one maybe retained more of its original parts than most, but to me it is clearly not in the same trim in which it left the factory. It would never have had dish cuts behind the rear band in 1941.

 

[desporterizer]

BBQ paint is a sign of refurb, sorry for you... JP.

Actually, it a sign of being in long term storage.

 

[desporterizer]

FWIW, some of these are more overhauled than others. This one maybe retained more of its original parts than most, but to me it is clearly not in the same trim in which it left the factory. It would never have had dish cuts behind the rear band in 1941.

This one seems to have them
http://www.milsurps.com/content.php?r=213-1941-M1891-30-Mosin-Nagant

 

[caramel]

BBQ paint was use in the 60 so after that could have been in storage since, it is a very nice rifle... JP.

 

[fugawi]

yes, I think it may be a refurb too but nevertheless a nice milsurp. If you want more opinions try posting it on Gunboards.

 

[Claven2]

This one seems to have them
http://www.milsurps.com/content.php?r=213-1941-M1891-30-Mosin-Nagant

LOL - I should know better, that rifle at MSC is one of mine. You're right, by 41 they had the dish cut.

Is the rear sight the long groove type, or the narrow? Cocking piece large diameter or small?

I disagree somewhat with others here though in that the black paint was never applied solely as a preservative that I have seen. In my experience, it was only ever applied to rifles that were worked on in some way in the 1960's and 1970's to cover up areas wit worn blueing.

The VAST major it of 1941 Izhevsk though do not have the transverse pins through the rear sight. Also, the peening around your rear sight axis pin is a common arsenal repair to correct a wallowed out rear sight axis hole. It could be that the rear sight work was the only thing done to the rifle when it got painted.

 

[#4mk1(T)]

Is the rear sight the long groove type, or the narrow? Cocking piece large diameter or small?

OK regrettably I’m not as Mosin literate as I guess I could be. How does one tell the difference? I’ll try to take few more photos of these areas a post then ASAP.

 

[collector67]

If you look at pics number 7 and 8, you can see a faint stamp of a diamond in the buttstock. Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't that a refurb mark?

 

[dimon]

It is not a refurb mark on the buttstock. Rather a makers proof mark.

 

[#4mk1(T)]

OK here are a few more photos. Hopefully I’ve covered what you were looking for.

Back sight:

 

[westrifle]

How does it shoot ? How much did you pay? Refurb or not use it.

PS I will stay away from commenting on this one. One thing I am going to say it is a nice rifle.

 

[Claven2]

Definitely a refurb. It has the fixing screw in the rear sight base as well as cross-pins. Originals use one or the other. The presence of both confirms it's a rework.

Still though, minimally refurbished and a nice example.

 

[desporterizer]

LOL - I should know better, that rifle at MSC is one of mine. You're right, by 41 they had the dish cut.

LOL. I know it was yours, thats why I had bust your balls about it. With the new pics provided by the op, we can see it has the early cocking piece & the rear sight parts are appropriate for the vintage but the spring is blued.

The only hard & fast rule about mosins is that there are no hard & fast rules.
How many refurbs have we seen with the sights not pinned? I can think of at least 5 obvious refurbs that missed that particular update. To further complicate things, the soviets recycled used parts to supplement new production.