Could use some helpful advice re first AR purchase - ADCOR vs 'Other'

C

Captain Smoof

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The long and the short of it is that I'm down on the waiting list for an Adcor BEAR upper. Maybe some of you have seen that the price has now risen to just shy of $1,600 before tax and shipping. My original plan was to buy the upper and, over time, build the lower and/or purchase a KAC ambi lower. Putting that all together however, I realize I'm over 3k for a black rifle.

It should also be pointed out that this rifle won't be shot anytime soon. This would be a slow build to both spread out the budgetary hit (got married this year...) as well as the fact that given the current demands of my job and family, joining a club in the GTA is too expensive and time-consuming. I will be posted to Ottawa in July 2014 where there are clubs a plenty - and much closer to town, not to mention loads of CF buddies who share our passion (rather than some of my whiny TO friends and family who think me the devil for even having an RPAL). I digress...

Given the price considerations in para 1, I'm thinking that I have three COAs (on which I seek your collective expert advice)

1 - Stick with COA 1, build a beautiful and unique rifle over time and accept the fact that it's expensive

2 - Buy a Tavor for roughly the same price and enjoy the fact that it's NR (as is the rest of my collection)

3 - For less than the upper, buy a complete DD M4 V7 and have notional budgetary space for the needed accessories.

I've never shot the Adcor, but I certainly like the idea of it based on it's novelty and its ingenuity. Seems like a best of both worlds to me. On the other hand, I've never been let down by a C7 or a DI system generally. I see it almost like a choice between an early version of the iPhone and an old flip phone; both make calls, one just has more gadgetry. As to the Tavor, if it's not my first black purchase, it will certainly be my second, so that's really a matter of when, not if.

As always, I welcome your advice and I apologize for the somewhat lengthy question.

Best,
MMS
 
You can't go wrong with any of the options. The Adcor is one of the nicest and most innovative piston uppers I've had a chance to fondle. I haven't handled a DD, but everyone raves about them. I also own two Tavors, so in that respect you're preaching to the converted.

If you plan to get a Tavor regardless, my advice is to get the Tavor first to see if you even want to go down the AR path (you may find that being NR you shoot it more anyway).
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Thanks for the response, Blaxsun. I've certainly read many of your posts over the last year or so and I value your opinion.

I guess I am a bit spooked about what may happen down south, so my thinking was an AR platform might be best to get now, as (presumably) the Tavor will remain available to us down the road.
 
Captain Smoof said:
Thanks for the response, Blaxsun. I've certainly read many of your posts over the last year or so and I value your opinion.

I guess I am a bit spooked about what may happen down south, so my thinking was an AR platform might be best to get now, as (presumably) the Tavor will remain available to us down the road.
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The latest Adcor I handled at Saskatoon GunWorks a few weeks ago had the Mega lower with a Magpul UBR stock, and it felt really well-balanced. I still go cuckoo-for-cocoa-puffs over the side charging handle (I just find it so slick).

Another option is to keep scanning the EE for a used/minty Tavor while you wait for your Adcor. They can be found on occasion for between $2,200-$2,400, so that could save you a few dollars. There are several Tavor models to choose from: the original Gen1 with the fixed BUIS (many which have an upgraded Dlask or CanAm rail), a handful of Gen1.5's with a short factory flattop and the more common Gen2's with the full-length flattop.
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I too am enamoured with the side charging handle. I've always found locking the bolt back on a traditional set up to be one of the more awkward movements. Having never handled a true ambi lower, do you think it would be possible (as a righty) to lock the bolt with your shooting hand while manipulating the side charging handle? From what I can guess, the reach is now worse than the mag release. If so, I would consider that a major ergonomical win.


That's a solid suggestion re EE, but ironically, they have yet to grant me access based on my lack of posts.
 
Captain Smoof said:
I too am enamoured with the side charging handle. I've always found locking the bolt back on a traditional set up to be one of the more awkward movements. Having never handled a true ambi lower, do you think it would be possible (as a righty) to lock the bolt with your shooting hand while manipulating the side charging handle? From what I can guess, the reach is now worse than the mag release. If so, I would consider that a major ergonomical win.

That's a solid suggestion re EE, but ironically, they have yet to grant me access based on my lack of posts.
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Yes, I'd probably recommend getting a Magpul BAD lever - this would give you the setup you desire (also what I use for the same reason). I think you just have to request access to the EE (unless they've changed something?)
 
Captain Smoof said:
Thanks for the response, Blaxsun. I've certainly read many of your posts over the last year or so and I value your opinion.

I guess I am a bit spooked about what may happen down south, so my thinking was an AR platform might be best to get now, as (presumably) the Tavor will remain available to us down the road.
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My suggestion if you are doing a slow build and are worried about further restrictions or bans is to buy a lower receiver ASAP....that is the registered firearm, and will be the part that is prohibited or further restricted, and may be grandfathered. The upper and all other parts are not in any way legally encumbered. If you really like the Adcor, and cost is a concern, then go with a cheaper lower. It won't save you more than $100-200, but will get you up and running, then later you could purchase a new lower from a different manufacturer if you wish. One thing I'm finding on my first AR build is that the lower receiver as long as it is in spec has very limited affect on the function of the firearm, it is the upper and barrel combination that really matters.
 
Thanks all for the responses.

Legally, I'm not so much worried about changes here in Canada, as much as what may happen in the States and what will or will not be exported in the future. Hell, NEA seems like it would still be an option for the lower north of the border. If anything, the sudden price increase on the Adcor seems to me to be in response to increased demand down there and their desire to divert their product to the domestic market, rather than ship it here. That's really just conjecture though.
 
To be clear, I put in a request a while ago and was denied based on my apparent lack of interest. I will ask again.

In my mind, a used gun was a good way to enter the market place and gain some insight to share on the board. Guess I'll have to buy new! ;-)
 
Captain Smoof said:
To be clear, I put in a request a while ago and was denied based on my apparent lack of interest. I will ask again.

In my mind, a used gun was a good way to enter the market place and gain some insight to share on the board. Guess I'll have to buy new! ;-)
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I believe somewhere in the EE rules there was a list of moderators who handle it. Perhaps if you sent them a PM and explained, you would have better luck.
 
Captain Smoof said:
If anything, the sudden price increase on the Adcor seems to me to be in response to increased demand down there and their desire to divert their product to the domestic market, rather than ship it here. That's really just conjecture though.
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I've mentioned this before and its really that far off the deep end IMO. Adcor has built lowers for Colt and they (Adcor) are in the process of bidding on a number of large military contracts. So, knowing the track record of Colt in winning bids (and being backup in production by Adcor, or at least being able to rely on), it's safe to say that some sort of protectionism is at play here to guarantee domestic availability of product.

And yeah - the Adcor is a really nice upper. I'm fondling one right now ;)
 
Captain Smoof said:
I too am enamoured with the side charging handle. I've always found locking the bolt back on a traditional set up to be one of the more awkward movements. Having never handled a true ambi lower, do you think it would be possible (as a righty) to lock the bolt with your shooting hand while manipulating the side charging handle? From what I can guess, the reach is now worse than the mag release. If so, I would consider that a major ergonomical win.

That's a solid suggestion re EE, but ironically, they have yet to grant me access based on my lack of posts.
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Yes you could with an ambi lower. But... You can also lock the bolt open with only your left hand if you use the charging handle on the left, pull back and use your same hand thumb to use the bolt release to lock open. With an ambi lower left hand shooters can do this too. Right hand shooters gain the advantage of using the index finger to release the bolt and STG44 style tactical mag changes. The ambi is worth it even fir right hand shooters.
 
Matt_dal123 said:
Ever thought about the PWS MK116? Nice rifle for piston fans. Well made and not a bad price...
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The PWS and a few others make a very nice piston AR. But as seen on other threads there are disadvantages with a conventional piston setup. The ADCOR doesn't just do a good job with an already proven system. It gets rid of the flaws associated with piston AR uppers. DI accuracy, piston reliability. Without having to go to a heavy or SS barrel like some piston systems. It's a unique take on both systems, plus they added some nice improvements. Non recipicating ambi charging handle, extra dust cover etc.

Bottom line it's something new. If it wasn't I wouldn't even consider it. I'm not big on piston ARs unless short barreled and or full auto. Otherwise I recommend DI. There are lots of excellent DI rifles and piston rifles. Hence all the DI vs Piston threads. This product seems to offer the best of both while adding more.
 
I agree with Epoxy. The piston system wasn't my original attraction to the product. The charging handle for ergo improvements is what does it for me - everything else is a bonus. And as much as I find some meditative enjoyment in cleaning an AR, I've done it enough.

I think I'm going to go with COA 1 and get the Adcor, as the prices are only set to rise, according to Saskatoon Gun Works. So it sounds like now is ideal and I'll just hope and trust that the Tavor will remain available to the Canadian market and be available when I'm ready for my next rifle (or at my next promotion!).

Thanks all for the input.
MMS
 
One tip with the ADCOR. You'll see early reviews from a few years ago that show damage to the rail from the side charging handle. I believe I know the cause of this. One of my uppers has a mark on the rail finish. When I first tried it out I pulled back the side charging handle then hit the bolt release. Don't do that!! I realized after I did it a few times that I would never do this with the regular charging handle or the side charger on my Tavor. Push the handle forward before hitting the bolt release. No more marks on the rail finish. Even if you do abuse the heck out of it the side charger will still function but you'll get the excessive wear as reported in initial reviews. IE abusing the firearm causes damage and wear. I know, who would have guesses?

Just finished putting together my uppers on HERA HLS lowers. Looks like a perfect match. My mirror mall ninjutsu is now at solid black belt standards.
 
Brought this thread back to life!

I'm still waiting on a lower. Thinking either the Hera or a Knight's. Have any photos of the completed build? I'd love to see them for the sake of inspiration.
 
Captain Smoof said:
Brought this thread back to life!

I'm still waiting on a lower. Thinking either the Hera or a Knight's. Have any photos of the completed build? I'd love to see them for the sake of inspiration.
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Every now and then I do a search on ADCOR. So figured this one should come back to life.

I will take some photos during the next couple of days. I need to borrow a camera. My iPhone pictures suck.

The KAC lower is very nice but its expensive. There was post a ways back showing one with the ADCOR upper. The three issues I have with the KAC lower are 1) price, 2) markings "Stoner rifle" and roll mark aren't my favourites. 3) the colour apparently is different than the ADCOR.

The ambi controls however with the KAC are the most natural looking. Also it comes with a match trigger and QR sockets.

For my lower:
I went with a PWS enhanced buffer tube. This gives you a 7075 milspec tube with QR and no castle nut. I personally think the QR looks better than KAC's which has the QR right at the back of their lower. Also with the PWS I can see the number position through the hole on my B5 stock. This is a small but helpful feature. Norgon ambi mag release was added which works well and looks good. B5 stock is the same as KAC LMY Sopmod stock. Which I like. The Magpul A frame CTR cross is another good option. I opted for the Spike tactical enhanced LPK. Which includes a coated trigger, KNS anti rotation pins, Ergo grip, aluminum trigger guard (used it in another rifle), ambi safety and a SS hex screw for the pistol grip along with the springs and pins. I put in a Spike tactical T2 buffer along with a grey market Tactical springs brand buffer spring.

I'm extremely happy with how these combination of lower parts worked out. Also how the lower and parts work and look with the ADCOR upper.

The trigger while not a match trigger is exactly what I hoped for. It's coated with one of the new popular coatings which makes it very slick. Although not light it is very clean and crisp. I would estimate the trigger at 5 lbs pull. With a clean crisp trigger this weight isn't an issue at all. Also I wanted single stage for this one. It suites the rifle and idea for this project perfectly.

I'll get some pictures out in a few days.
 
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