Counterfeit scopes and ethics

Q

Quiet

CGN frequent flyer
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Back in the spring Hungry showed me one of the Leupold Mk4 Tactical knockoffs that everyone is raving about.
I was immediately shocked by how close it duplicated the original, so much that I started to wonder if the Leupold Mk4 Tactical I bought on the Equipment Exchange at close to full price was genune. It appears that the model I bought may not have yet been available as a fake (but it is now).
I didn't observe a leupold logo on the MK4 clone that Hungry showed me, but it appears that Aimpoint clones some people have bought even even gone so far as to be marked with an Aimpoint logo.

Now I'm sure that a fake MK4 is a great accessory for a mirror-commando to put on his spray-painted Remington PSS, but the issues with adjustments would pose a serious problem for a shooter - particularly someone who does not have enough experience to identify the source of the problem.
Given the accuracy of the appearance and the lack of accuracy in terms of performance - is anyone else concerned that these will destroy the resale value of the real optics or undermine confidence in real optics?

If it isn't already happening, how long will it be until someone buys a new Leopold or Aimpoint to put on their gun, and recovers their money by saving the original box to sell with a Knockoff at full price to an unsuspecting buyer here on the Equipment Exchange?

Should there at least be a sticky on the Equipment Exchange outlining a policy on this, and perhaps a guide on how to test and identify fakes?
 
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Quiet:

I'm hoping that people are sensible enough to discern a good deal from a super cheap "Too good to be true" deal. Then again that's why I'm a firm believer in humantiy... then I go to work at my high school and recognize that most of humanity raised the assclowns whose fights I've got to break up (barehanded, too).

People buying such Mark4's better realize soon enough that these knockoffs are good only for shzts and giggles where an entry level TASCO used to prevail. Anyone who will do the research on Mark4 M1 or M3 likely know all the ins and outs of good optics. Said high end Mark4 will not likely be their first or second, but maybe their third optic. So hopefully they are doing the "Caveat Emptor" practice ... (buyer beware).

Now that being said, I did manage to knock off about 65 Quebec Earth Pigs this July in Shawville, QC. This town is full on English speaking farmers desperate to reduce the crop damage by groundhogs. In this game, I don't need to make any adjusments, but I do have the tall turrets to pretend that I'm more than a mirror Kommando, I'm an earth pig assassin. yuk yuk yuk.

I've read somewhere on this board that the kommunists are ramping up to create more and more of the Leupold Mark4 knockoffs in a dizzying array of magnifications to parallel the real babies. So get ready, folks.

Fortunately for us English Types, recognizing the poor English translation on the cheezy cardboard knockoff boxes is dead simple. Kinda reminds me of that sleazy bar in Hong Kong when a chinese vocalist would sing Rod Stewart's "Do you think I'm ###y?" with a super strong/thick mainland Mandarin accent... singing in Engrish.... Me love you long time, boocoo jiggy jiggy !! LOL

Cheers all,
Barney
 
lack of accuracy..... have you read any of the reviews on the leupold clones.... thier return to zero is equal to nay other scope in this price point range and frankly the knockoff is better then my tasco varmit in every way, brighter, clearer and better clicks on the turrets.

only an idiot would confuse a clone of anything for the "real" deal..... I have an aimpoint branded "clone" ml2, there is nothing similar to the real deal except the clone actually has spelled aimpoint correctly in the silk screening..... the clones brightness adjustment will turn both ways, the original will not, the clone has flimsy 'butler creek" knockoff scope covers.... the real deal uses a harder plastic cover. the clone comes in a white box with no warrenty or serial number marked on the scope, the aimpoint comes in factory box with a serial number and warrenty card. (some m68's came in white box)

I also have the mk4 Illuminated reticle clone, nowhere does it allude to being a luepold..... and frankly them calling it a clone is pretty funny, is bushnell going to call the 6-24x40AO with side adjust a luepold clone because it has all the features of a Mk4 ??

a scope is a scope, it is hard to distinguish one make for another except for the name sprayed or engraved on the side..... do this simple test, spray all your scopes flatblack, remove all distinguishing markings and then try to tell me which is which.

as to ethics, well CGN allready has rules about false advertising..... ethics is up to the person and frankly whats to stop someone from selling a broken ACOG or other brand name optic without telling the other person.
 
knock off scopes

i was reading a post on riflescopes.com, where leupold is going after the maker of these scopes which has aplied for paten rights in there country of origin, it had been to court several times but to no avail only to discover that this cpmpany had aplied for patens to many other scope makes as well, what next
 
And their quality is steadily getting better.
In a decade we'll be wondering about the ethics of possibly slipping a Leupold into a box from Futang Optical Company.
 
No different is the fact that selling KAC RAS's as the real thing only to have the purchaser discover that in fact that they are Airsoft:eek: or for that matter members buying known Airsoft products and trying to get the parts to make it fit on there rifles from the real manufacture by using some lame ass excuse as the parts did not come with kit.No wonder some manufactures do not sell there products in Canada
 
leupold clones

thats the whole point since when can joe blow get a paten for something you already own and they get to screw other companies two ,Millett scopes were the first to get ripped off there was even a serial number engraved in the scope with look a like boxes to, you basically have to phone from the dealer to see if the serial is real or fake,
 
greentips said:
The aimpoint Clone with the Aimpoint logo is a problem- I know the difference because I have a few of the the real stuff but for the newbies it could be a challenge.

There are even Elcan clones out there. It is stupid.

THe Kommies have no issue in churning out optics that are acceptable for combat. THey have 3X day light sights issued to their Type 95 assalut rifles, vari-power for their type88 DMRs and new anti-material rifles
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Aside from the fact that the money spent on these things will be coming back down on our heads someday, I'd have much more confidence in a genune Kommie-issue combat scope than a commercial market Kommie-faked-american scope.

That said, I'm sure it couldn't have been very difficult for the chinese to duplicate the high quality of our Elcan scope mount.
 
I have 500 rounds through my Leupy knockoff and I love it! I do not see any reason anyone would spend more money for the same thing. This scope is amazing for the price!
 
The Americans have a bad habit of subcontracting to china and get all angry when the chinese decide to assemble to components themselves. I just find it funny to watch a communist company undermine capitalist enterprises.
 
Westicle said:
only an idiot would confuse a clone of anything for the "real" deal..... .
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There is unfortunately a whole segment of the 2nd hand gun industry that buys legitimate reproductions and makes a living from reselling them to the uninformed. Check out the 10+ page post in the Milsurp forum about a guy that bought a "Royal Marine Commando Carbine"...

Westicle said:
lack of accuracy..... have you read any of the reviews on the leupold clones.... thier return to zero is equal to nay other scope in this price point range and frankly the knockoff is better then my tasco varmit in every way, brighter, clearer and better clicks on the turrets..
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mdbuckle said:
I have 500 rounds through my Leupy knockoff and I love it! I do not see any reason anyone would spend more money for the same thing. This scope is amazing for the price!
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I would be interested in seeing the results of some Shoot-The-Square tests on an accurate rifle comparing these scopes side by side with a Leupold. (Shoot a group, click 5 minutes right, shoot a group, click 5 minutes up, shoot a group, click 5 minutes left, group, 5 minutes down - are you in the same place you started?)
I'm almost tempted to buy one just for the test...

I'm sure its can be as good as other low-end scopes from china but not the quality and reliability of the types scopes that they are attempting to look like. I think that is the particular problem I have with these things.
I eat no-name-brand food, I control my blood pressure with generic drugs and stop my truck with aftermarket brake pads. I have no problem relying on and even trusting my life to knock-offs if they are clearly identified as such and are a more cost-effective functional equivalent to the name brand unit.
 
Simply copying someone elses scope has it's own ethical considerations. But copying the someone elses scope & putting their name & markings on it is plain theft.

Theft of intellectual property, trademarks & copyrights is becoming a huge issue worldwide.
 
Quiet said:
I would be interested in seeing the results of some Shoot-The-Square tests on an accurate rifle comparing these scopes side by side with a Leupold. (Shoot a group, click 5 minutes right, shoot a group, click 5 minutes up, shoot a group, click 5 minutes left, group, 5 minutes down - are you in the same place you started?)
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This was done but I can't find the thread for the life of me.

The guy was testing on a couple of Tikkas, and did 2 clicks up, 2 shots, 2 clicks right, 2 shots etc, etc.

The results were fine if I remember correctly.

DAMN! Wheres that friken thread?
 
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I would much rather wait longer (even if it is a lot longer) to get the real thing.

Hungry here: Paulinski, I agree with you. Wait for some while and save up your money for the real thing to mount on rifles with super serious applications (like an Operational Sniper match like we offer in the OSA). BUT (big but) for less serious jobs like shooting groundhogs (dedicated .223 blaster) or a .22 practice rifle, or any rifle for shzts and giggles, this is a great application or trainer.... yeeeeeha.... I'm a cheap bastard, that's why. No seriously, I've already got 2 Leupold Mark4s sitting on my competition guns. Too frickin' bad I can't shoot like Quiet can....
 
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Okay, I'm here and I carried out the box test.....

I can't post pictures, but here 's what I ended up with:

Started with a 3 shot group

* adjusted 5 moa UP, shot 3 shot group, really moved the POI 6 inches
* adjusted 3 moa right, shot 3 shot group, really moved the POI 4 inches
* adjusted 5 moa down, shot 3 shot group, really moved POI down 6 inches and across from my initial black patch, you know the sticky adhesive ones from Staples Business Depot.
* adjusted 3 moa left, which really moved POI 4 inches left, shot a 3 shot group, ended up about 1/2" LOW from my initial zero

* Adjusted for the 1/2" variance and then shot POA = POI for 110 meters, ready for groundhog safari in Frenchieland....

* Took the rifle out to Shawville, Quebec and assassinated 65 earth pigs.

That test is good enough for a $ 100 TASCO entry level price point scope. Hey ! What other scope can you find for $ 100 that has target turrets, side focus that allows me to focus from 200m to 35m in half a turn, 30mm main tube not the 1" weeenie tube, mildot reticle for longer groundhog shots, and some LCF (look cool factor) ?? So I bought 2 of them to be consistent with my policy of "Don't buy ONE, buy TWO of them..." yuk yuk yuk

Would I take this scope and mount it on my 20" Armalite HBAR to challenge the Queen's Medalist types ? Sure I would, well only for shzts and giggles since I'm lucky to punch 520 points. On a more serious note, this is a $ 100 price point scope... don't forget that. I like the value that it provides for the $ 100 I paid for this baby.... 30mm maintube, side focus that actually works, tall turrets that are re-setable with ONE allen key, GREAT LCV (look cool value).

And yes, it looks just great on my CZ452 Varmint gopher gitter !! Shoots well too.

Hope this helps,
Barney
 
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Clone scopes

Hungry may I add an AMEN ! What do you want for a $100 scope ? Bet I could hear the moaning from as far away as Ottawa if the scope sold for $600and still tracked as well.:runaway:
 
greentips said:
The issue is not about the quality etc etc.

It is about stealing intellectual properties by using someone else names. That's stealing other's reputation. That's like taking someone's business card and pretend to be that someone at a party....

It's like wearing fake Nikes, fake Oakleys, fake Gucci.....personally, I laugh at people who wear fake stuff. If you cannot afford it, dont wear it!! No one is going to fault anyone for wearing no name brand, but wearing knock-off to look like as if you can afford is pathetic.
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BINGO!
 
mdbuckle said:
I have 500 rounds through my Leupy knockoff and I love it! I do not see any reason anyone would spend more money for the same thing. This scope is amazing for the price!
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...have you clicked out to 1150 yards with it, fired 5 rounds, clicked back to 400 yards, and then gone back to the longer range and held the exact zero? That's what the real deal gives you, and that's why I spend the money.
 
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