Okay, even though I am starting to go cross-eyed from reading and watching internet videos regarding reloading, I still am unsure of a few things. First, regarding case trimming...most videos don't show this being done, so is it something that is absolutely necessary or what? Also, how important is it to have a clean primer pocket before a new primer is installed...the reason I ask is that the Lee Classic Turret decaps, resizes and presses in new primer all in the same step, so do most of you interupt this step to clean the primer pocket? Lastly(for now), how many times can brass be re-used on average? I'm really looking forward to getting into this reloading, but the amount of info out there is a little daunting, but at least I think I've decided on the right press for me...Lee Classic Turret 4 Hole. Thanks for the help.
Couple newbie questions
- Thread starter RACKMAN
- Start date
ultimate_monkey
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- victoria BC
1)yes trimming is nessisary, if the MAX case lentght is exceeded it can have all kinds of effects on pressures and the case could become stuck in the chamber. when fires the brass will stretch out, this happesn more in the first cpl fireings then any other time
as far as claning the primer pockets go, its not nessisary but most guys will do it any way in the sake of consistansy and accuracy, and for the time it takes might as well do it
3) case usage - this will really depend on the make of brass you have and how hot your loading , and case prep, if you anneal your brass it will last longer then brass that becomes excessivly work harded
as far as claning the primer pockets go, its not nessisary but most guys will do it any way in the sake of consistansy and accuracy, and for the time it takes might as well do it
3) case usage - this will really depend on the make of brass you have and how hot your loading , and case prep, if you anneal your brass it will last longer then brass that becomes excessivly work harded
So how do you know when it is time to retire brass?
"...regarding case trimming..." Depends on the cartridge. Bottle necked rifle cases(.308, for example) tend to stretch more than other cases. They need to be checked for length(a digital vernier isn't expensive) every time, but you won't need to trim unless they're over the max case length given in your manual. Then you trim 'em to the 'trim-to' length, chamfer and deburr the case mouth. Brand new brass must be checked for length, full length(FL) resized, trimmed as required and chamfered and deburred. Once fired, out of another rifle, must be FL resized as well.
Straight walled rifle cases(IE. .45-70) usually don't stretch much, but check 'em. Handgun cases rarely need trimming at all. They don't stretch much either. Not at all with target loads.
Primer pockets don't need cleaning often. If you get a case that doesn't re-prime easily, cleaning it is one thing you can do to fix it. Usually not a big deal though.
Case life is entirely dependent on the load. Hot loads reduce case life with any case. .38 Special target loads literally last for hundreds of reloadings without doing anything but resizng. Crimping can reduce .38 case life though. The case mouth will crack, eventually. .45 ACP's get taper crimped only and last for eons too.
"...time to retire brass..." A cracked case mouth or any case body cracks.
Annealing is something that applies mostly to bottle necked rifle cases. It's not hard to do or expensive. The necks and shoulders get work hardened with repeated firing and resizing. You just put the cases into a pan(tin foil roasting pan will do) of plain water and heat the neck and shoulder with a regular propane torch until the brass changes colour(not red hot) and tip 'em over. Quickest way to dry 'em is on a cookie sheet in the oven set on the lowest temperature for 15 minutes or so. Oven mitts will be needed and don't touch the cases for 15 to 20 minutes.
Straight walled rifle cases(IE. .45-70) usually don't stretch much, but check 'em. Handgun cases rarely need trimming at all. They don't stretch much either. Not at all with target loads.
Primer pockets don't need cleaning often. If you get a case that doesn't re-prime easily, cleaning it is one thing you can do to fix it. Usually not a big deal though.
Case life is entirely dependent on the load. Hot loads reduce case life with any case. .38 Special target loads literally last for hundreds of reloadings without doing anything but resizng. Crimping can reduce .38 case life though. The case mouth will crack, eventually. .45 ACP's get taper crimped only and last for eons too.
"...time to retire brass..." A cracked case mouth or any case body cracks.
Annealing is something that applies mostly to bottle necked rifle cases. It's not hard to do or expensive. The necks and shoulders get work hardened with repeated firing and resizing. You just put the cases into a pan(tin foil roasting pan will do) of plain water and heat the neck and shoulder with a regular propane torch until the brass changes colour(not red hot) and tip 'em over. Quickest way to dry 'em is on a cookie sheet in the oven set on the lowest temperature for 15 minutes or so. Oven mitts will be needed and don't touch the cases for 15 to 20 minutes.
- Location
- Golden Lake
How long cases will last can depend on the rifle you are shooting and the chamber. A friend had a M99 Savage .22 Hi-Power and when fired the cases bulged out near the base. After being full-length re-sized the cases split on the 2nd firing.
I have never cleaned primer pockets. maybe I should but I never have.
I keep ammo in 50 round plastic boxes (weighed cases). When a few get near max I trim them all to half way between min and max.
When a few split, i toss the whole box. My 308s last 10 to 20 reloads (Winchester brass)
I keep ammo in 50 round plastic boxes (weighed cases). When a few get near max I trim them all to half way between min and max.
When a few split, i toss the whole box. My 308s last 10 to 20 reloads (Winchester brass)
My process goes like this. Get brass (new or once fired from range sight in days), Tumble, F/L size and decap. Trim to length, de-burr flash hole, uniform primer pocket.
After that, I don't tumble or clean the primer pocket until I need to trim again. Allows me to use my Lee turret press and take advantage of the ease of loading rounds more quickly.
After that, I don't tumble or clean the primer pocket until I need to trim again. Allows me to use my Lee turret press and take advantage of the ease of loading rounds more quickly.
the Lee trimmers are inexpensive and work well. Get a pilot for each calibre you want to trim and the pilot holder/cutter and go crazy. No worrys about the case being shortened too much. The tool will only take it back to the minimum spec. Have fun
Nobody asked if he is loading rifle or pistol!!
Pistol I never have ever trimed one, never reamed primer pocket. Just clean reload and shoot.
Rifle I get 2 or 3 firings before I need to trim.
When I get new brass I check lenght and trim if necessary. I deprime all the brass then check with Lee's case lenght cutter if its good. Then I prime 50 or 100. Then I fill with weighed powder charge. Then I seat the bullet, 10 to 20 thou off the lands for a single shot or to lenght to fit my mag.
Some of my 223 brass are up to 15 reloads.
Some of my 270 are toast at 6 reloads (auto loader)
Some of my 45acp have no discernible headstamp.
It depends on caliber of firearm.
Good things to add to the post would be the caliber and rifle type. The brass used.
Pistol I never have ever trimed one, never reamed primer pocket. Just clean reload and shoot.
Rifle I get 2 or 3 firings before I need to trim.
When I get new brass I check lenght and trim if necessary. I deprime all the brass then check with Lee's case lenght cutter if its good. Then I prime 50 or 100. Then I fill with weighed powder charge. Then I seat the bullet, 10 to 20 thou off the lands for a single shot or to lenght to fit my mag.
Some of my 223 brass are up to 15 reloads.
Some of my 270 are toast at 6 reloads (auto loader)
Some of my 45acp have no discernible headstamp.
It depends on caliber of firearm.
Good things to add to the post would be the caliber and rifle type. The brass used.
I don't bother cleaning pistol primer pockets, and neither do a lot of other people. I also don't always clean them when I'm just making plinking loads for rifle. When I want to try for my most accurate I will use a primer pocket uniformer, which cuts the primer pocket to an even depth (also cleans while doing this).
As the others have said, you have to trim out of spec brass. .308 Win for example has a max case length of 2.015" So you may load any case that is up to 2.015" in length, and when you trim you usually trim back to 2.005". The normal way most people trim, is to knock the case back .010" from max, then you can use it a few times again before trimming. Cases need to be checked each time they are reloaded for length. This is done AFTER sizing the case, since the sizing die can stretch the case as it is pulled out. Again when going for the most accurate loads, you might trim every time you load to the same length on each case so as to make things as consistant as possible.
Straight wall cases usually do not stretch or grow in length. Most people do not ever trim pistol cases like 9mm .40SW .45ACP .38 SPL etc. In some low pressure straight wall rifle calibres like .45-70 and .38-55 the cases may even shrink a little bit shorter. I think it is important that you still measure all these things when you're getting the hang of it, so that you will have that experience to draw on later.
In the case of loading something we expect to grow, like say .308 Winchester on the Lee Turret, or any progressive or Turret Press, I would say, lube and size the cases first, then check all of them for trim length, trim if needed, then put them back on the press skipping the sizing step. Something like .45ACP could just be run through from once fired, to loaded all in one cycle of the press.
As the others have said, you have to trim out of spec brass. .308 Win for example has a max case length of 2.015" So you may load any case that is up to 2.015" in length, and when you trim you usually trim back to 2.005". The normal way most people trim, is to knock the case back .010" from max, then you can use it a few times again before trimming. Cases need to be checked each time they are reloaded for length. This is done AFTER sizing the case, since the sizing die can stretch the case as it is pulled out. Again when going for the most accurate loads, you might trim every time you load to the same length on each case so as to make things as consistant as possible.
Straight wall cases usually do not stretch or grow in length. Most people do not ever trim pistol cases like 9mm .40SW .45ACP .38 SPL etc. In some low pressure straight wall rifle calibres like .45-70 and .38-55 the cases may even shrink a little bit shorter. I think it is important that you still measure all these things when you're getting the hang of it, so that you will have that experience to draw on later.
In the case of loading something we expect to grow, like say .308 Winchester on the Lee Turret, or any progressive or Turret Press, I would say, lube and size the cases first, then check all of them for trim length, trim if needed, then put them back on the press skipping the sizing step. Something like .45ACP could just be run through from once fired, to loaded all in one cycle of the press.
I guess I should have stated that I will be reloading mostly pistol...9mm, .40S&W, 45 ACP, 357 Mag and probably .223 will be the only rifle. I'm trying to do as much research and reading as I can but there is a LOT of conflicting information and there seems to be many people posting videos and info who do things differently, so it hard to get a sense of what is the correct way to reload. For instance, some people always clean and lube pistol brass and clean the primer pockets...some people say it's completely unnecessary or only necessary every few reloads...who's right??????
Also, the description for LEE's CARBIDE DECAPPER and RESIZER die states that it is not necessary to clean and lube the brass due to the fact that it is the CARBIDE version of their decapper and resizer...so what's the deal?
Also, the description for LEE's CARBIDE DECAPPER and RESIZER die states that it is not necessary to clean and lube the brass due to the fact that it is the CARBIDE version of their decapper and resizer...so what's the deal?It sounds like you may be reloading handgun cartridges? If so, very different methods apply. Accuracy in handguns is not a big consideration, and you can cut a lot of corners. These comments only apply to rifle cartridges where you are concerned about accuracy:
Yes, clean the primer pockets. Lee sells a tool for about $2 to do it. Use a hand priming tool to seat the primers consistently. Weigh all your powder charges. Trim your brass when it reaches max length for the cartridge. The Lee tool does it very well and requires no measurement. Just trim till it does not cut any longer. Neck size your brass, and seat the bullets just off the lands.
Yes, clean the primer pockets. Lee sells a tool for about $2 to do it. Use a hand priming tool to seat the primers consistently. Weigh all your powder charges. Trim your brass when it reaches max length for the cartridge. The Lee tool does it very well and requires no measurement. Just trim till it does not cut any longer. Neck size your brass, and seat the bullets just off the lands.
unlax- i'll cover that when i c u
however, the only pistol cases that require lube are BOTTLENCK - that carbide ring is harder than brass and is going to form the case back to dimensions anyway,and it's not necessary with carbide dies- i have NEVER lubed, and if some guys feel they need to there's something else WRONG- like the die may be out of alignment or shelplate is slightly off, or something- it should slip in there VERY easily with PISTOL cartridges- rifle, will stick like it's WELDED in there if there's no lube- usually requires a hammer as you've probably pulled the rim off
however, the only pistol cases that require lube are BOTTLENCK - that carbide ring is harder than brass and is going to form the case back to dimensions anyway,and it's not necessary with carbide dies- i have NEVER lubed, and if some guys feel they need to there's something else WRONG- like the die may be out of alignment or shelplate is slightly off, or something- it should slip in there VERY easily with PISTOL cartridges- rifle, will stick like it's WELDED in there if there's no lube- usually requires a hammer as you've probably pulled the rim off
If you are shooting mixed lots of .357 brass, it is a good idea to trim them all to the shortest min length. That way, when you do a roll crimp, it will hit the same spot in the bullet, and cause the same bullet tension. Accuracy with god revolvers can be amazing - see metalic silhouette shooters expectatons.
Bro these guys are mostly refering to rifle loads. Pistol loads, like posted before, clean, check for splits or whatever and load. I didn't even tumble mine for the longest while, just washed in CLR let air dry and reload. You shoot way to much pistol ammo (at least i do) to be anal about triming cases and what not. Not to say its wrong.... just not worth the time unless u want to make some serious percision load i guess. I load 40 s&w, .45 with a lee pro 1000 and have loaded thousands of rounds. I do go a little lighter on the loads most of the time. I couldn't imagine checking every case for length when im turning out 250 plus easy loads an hour. The difference between pistol and rifle i guess. And as far as how many times it can be reloaded.... well as stated before...there is no magic number... but pistol cases are super cheap (minus .45's lol) and if it looks sketchy.... toss it. But 40s&w i'd guess 20x ish at least. They usually get to beat up before failure becomes an issue. But everyone is different with different recommendations, just saying what works for me.
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I guess I should have stated that I will be reloading mostly pistol...9mm, .40S&W, 45 ACP, 357 Mag and probably .223 will be the only rifle. I'm trying to do as much research and reading as I can but there is a LOT of conflicting information and there seems to be many people posting videos and info who do things differently, so it hard to get a sense of what is the correct way to reload. For instance, some people always clean and lube pistol brass and clean the primer pockets...some people say it's completely unnecessary or only necessary every few reloads...who's right??????
Rackman, start all the necessary procedures and find the way work for you. For semi pistol brass, since they will jump and fell on the ground and pick up dirt, it is important to have them clean before resized, it is to avoid scratch the brass and the die. YOu don't have to lub the pistol case for lee carbide die.
I don't tumble my brass, the dust from the tumber is very bad, I use detergent and vangaer.
Cleaning of primer pocket is necessary because it allow the primer fully sit.
When you found the case mouth splited or too easy to sit the primer, the case has to be retired.
Since revolver brass can reload more times, triming is necessary to avoid the case getting longer after many resize.
Trigun
...who's right??????
Everybody
!Reloaders create kinks like a Cantonese Cat House, but the fundamentals remain the same.
Straight walled pistol brass, as already mentioned, and carbide dies, relieve you of concerns over trimming and lubricating. Just start by following the basic steps in some manual or other. Soon you'll be tweaking things and developing kinks of your own.
Lotta guys try to start without even reading a manual. You may be reading too many. "Outstanding"
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