couple questions on the 300H&H.

S

southernman

Regular
Super GunNutz
Rating - 100%
12   0   0
Location
Taranaki New Zealand/Fort Mc Murray, Alberta
Pretty much decided on getting a cooper in the 300 H&H, I have a 300H&H, ruger #1 but would like a repeater,
I already have 300H&H, brass dies etc, am looking at running heavy for cal moderate 300 magnum 200gr, partion, accubond, 208 a-max,
primary use will be deer, thar, Have moved primary residence back to new Zealand,
with a trip to Africa for plains game within next couple years.

case capacity is the same as 300 win, but 300H&H seams to be loaded quite a bit softer, can the H&H match the 300 win, and what are the likely problems, I am wondering if that long tapered case is prone to stretching.
If I was at sum point, in the future to change from the 300H&H, what options would I have to ream out chamber, with out changing bolt face, 300 wby perhaps ?
 
300 H&H has a bit less case capacity than the 300 Win Mag. The 300 Win will outpace the H&H by a moderate margin.

Actually, the H&H is practically identical to the 300 WSM as far as capacity goes, so expect similar performance to that.

The H&H is loaded a bit "soft", and will do better with handloads, right around 3000 with a 180 grain bullet.

I can be easily opened up to 300 Weatherby Mag if you wanted that. Personally I would leave well enough alone.

Regards, Dave.
 
If and when I go back to Africa my M70 in 300 H&H will be going with me loaded with 200gr Partitions or A-Frames. I won't be opening mine up to 300 Wby for any reason.
 
Eagleye said:
300 H&H has a bit less case capacity than the 300 Win Mag. The 300 Win will outpace the H&H by a moderate margin.

Actually, the H&H is practically identical to the 300 WSM as far as capacity goes, so expect similar performance to that.

The H&H is loaded a bit "soft", and will do better with handloads, right around 3000 with a 180 grain bullet.

I can be easily opened up to 300 Weatherby Mag if you wanted that. Personally I would leave well enough alone.

Regards, Dave.
Click to expand...

When Winchester changed the Model 70, in 1964, the new "design team" elected to use a shorter magnum case for their new design Model 70. . The 458 WM case length was what Winchester wished to use , 338 WM, 300 WM, 264 WM. . . To help slide in the new rifle design with the new 300 magnum, Winchester bragged up the 300 WM as superior to the old 300 H&H. . The 300 WM was Winchester's replacement for the 300 H&H using a shorter case. .

The 300 H&H did not enjoy the upgraded powder loadings as did the 300 WM. . The 300 H&H holds slightly more powder than the 300 WM and the 300 H&H is more efficient in performance of powder per grain when comparing the two. . The 300 WM has a short neck and as such the bullet is seated deeper in the case using up case volume. . The difference between the two is hardly worth comparing as one duplicates the other. . The long tapered 300 H&H case and long neck gives the advantage and a slight edge but requires a long action where the 300 WM uses the standard 30-06 receiver length. .
 
Rod said:
When Winchester changed the Model 70, in 1964, the new "design team" elected to use a shorter magnum case for their new design Model 70. . The 458 WM case length was what Winchester wished to use , 338 WM, 300 WM, 264 WM. . . To help slide in the new rifle design with the new 300 magnum, Winchester bragged up the 300 WM as superior to the old 300 H&H. . The 300 WM was Winchester's replacement for the 300 H&H using a shorter case. .

The 300 H&H did not enjoy the upgraded powder loadings as did the 300 WM. . The 300 H&H holds slightly more powder than the 300 WM and the 300 H&H is more efficient in performance of powder per grain when comparing the two. . The 300 WM has a short neck and as such the bullet is seated deeper in the case using up case volume. . The difference between the two is hardly worth comparing as one duplicates the other. . The long tapered 300 H&H case and long neck gives the advantage and a slight edge but requires a long action where the 300 WM uses the standard 30-06 receiver length. .
Click to expand...

I do believe you are incorrect vis a vis case capacity. The Win Mag does have about 4% more capacity than the H&H. In my experience the Win Mag will edge out the H&H by a slight bit when loaded hot, even with 200 grain bullets. This being said, the two are so close to equal when loaded to similar pressures they are one and the same ballistically. The H&H will fit into most long actions with some work.
 
cam1936 said:
I do believe you are incorrect vis a vis case capacity. The Win Mag does have about 4% more capacity than the H&H. In my experience the Win Mag will edge out the H&H by a slight bit when loaded hot, even with 200 grain bullets. This being said, the two are so close to equal when loaded to similar pressures they are one and the same ballistically. The H&H will fit into most long actions with some work.
Click to expand...

Sometimes there needs to be a reason to buy another rifle and Winchester promoted their 300 WM by claiming it to have a slight edge over the longer 300 H&H. . Good marketing strategy but a stretch of the truth. . For example . . 300 H&H with 180 gr bullet, 69 grains 4831 is at 89% case capacity. . . 300 WM with 180 grain bullet, 69 grains 4831 is at 95% case capacity. . The 300 H&H is a necked down 375 H&H and the long tapered case slides through the rifle like hot knife through butter and produces more velocity per grain than the 300 WM. . For example . . 300 H&H with 180 grain bullet, 70 grains of 4831 comes out at 3039 fps. . 300 WM with 180 grain bullet, 73 grains of 4831 comes out at 2996 fps. . This can vary slightly depending on reloading manuals. .

The 300 H&H, 180 gr. bullet, 69 gr 4350 yields 3185 fps compared to 300 wby, 180 gr. bullet, 75 gr 4350 yields 2917 fps. . . But move up to heavier bullets and the 300 wby out does both the H&H and the WM.
 
medvedqc said:
very good choice on caliber and bullet. now which destination? not Zimbabwe but there is more than one to choose ...
Click to expand...

Currently I'm torn between Mozambique and the Caprivi Strip in Namibia. It will depend what I decide to hunt. I'd love to do Tanzania before it's too late but it's a lot more expensive and, given that so much classic safari literature comes from that part of the world, it might be impossible for it to live up to expectations.
 
BigUglyMan said:
Currently I'm torn between Mozambique and the Caprivi Strip in Namibia. It will depend what I decide to hunt. I'd love to do Tanzania before it's too late but it's a lot more expensive and, given that so much classic safari literature comes from that part of the world, it might be impossible for it to live up to expectations.
Click to expand...

i think Caprivi will be a very good choice, the other ones too but i still have some good memories on that place ...
 
Rod said:
Sometimes there needs to be a reason to buy another rifle and Winchester promoted their 300 WM by claiming it to have a slight edge over the longer 300 H&H. . Good marketing strategy but a stretch of the truth. . For example . . 300 H&H with 180 gr bullet, 69 grains 4831 is at 89% case capacity. . . 300 WM with 180 grain bullet, 69 grains 4831 is at 95% case capacity. . The 300 H&H is a necked down 375 H&H and the long tapered case slides through the rifle like hot knife through butter and produces more velocity per grain than the 300 WM. . For example . . 300 H&H with 180 grain bullet, 70 grains of 4831 comes out at 3039 fps. . 300 WM with 180 grain bullet, 73 grains of 4831 comes out at 2996 fps. . This can vary slightly depending on reloading manuals. .

The 300 H&H, 180 gr. bullet, 69 gr 4350 yields 3185 fps compared to 300 wby, 180 gr. bullet, 75 gr 4350 yields 2917 fps. . . But move up to heavier bullets and the 300 wby out does both the H&H and the WM.
Click to expand...


Sir, you quote manuals that would seem to support your position, however your position is not supported in actual fact nor when using the correct burn rate powders for the different capacity cases. I own and shoot all 3 cartridges you quote as well as the 300 WSM and RUM. The H&H will NOT equal the WM nor the WBY when loaded to the same pressures in the same length barrels, it falls significantly short and rivals only the WSM in 30 magnums. This is fact, not cherry picking loading manuals to support my hypothesis. I actually find that the 300 H&H falls 7% behind in case capacity from the WM when comparing W-W to W-W in the 2 cases. This is not a trifling amount and still translates into about 150-200 fps difference, when loaded to the same pressures with optimum burn rate powders in the same barrel lengths, and the Wby will add the same amount again.............This is reality, I'm not disparaging the H&H, but then let's not attempt to have her be what she is not...........and she is not the equal of the 300 Winchester Magnum nor Roy's 30 caliber offering, any more than the 300 Savage is the equal of the 30-06 or the 280 Rem is the equal of the 7mm Rem Mag.
I for one, am tiring of computer experts who keep saying that 200 or 300 fps makes no real difference when actually hunting and shooting at game. To which I must respond........you apparently have never shot game, and I for one can tell you there is a huge difference in impact reaction when you add 300 fps to any bullet. I have experienced it with 25 cal cartridges, 28 cal cartridges 30 cal cartridges, 33 cal cartridges, 35 cal cartridges and 36 cal cartridges and I haven't shot any game with my 378 Wby yet but I suspect I will see the difference as well there between the H&H and the extra 300 fps of the big Wby.
To those of you who say there is no difference hitting game with a 180 gn bullet at 2800 fps than hitting the same animal with the same bullet at 3100 fps, dead is dead..........you need to shoot a lot more game than you have and under more diverse circumstances to fully appreciate what an extra 300 fps can do for you !!!!!!!
 
c-fbmi said:
Sir, you quote manuals that would seem to support your position, however your position is not supported in actual fact nor when using the correct burn rate powders for the different capacity cases. !!!!!!!
Click to expand...

I also own and shoot both the 300 H&H and the 300 WM and those are the loading I use, hunt with and harvest game with. . i don't agree with you on this and will leave it at that. .
 
mbogo3 said:
I won't even mention the .308 Norma Magnum .............Harold
Click to expand...

Good call as the Norma holds less powder than the Win and the H&H. But I've seen that the Norma has the same magical case shape when compared to the 300 Win as the 280AI has when compared to the 7 Rem Mag.....that is,...less powder equals more velocity.
And, I've owned all of them.
 
Currently have a pre 64 Win 70 .300 H+H and a FN Browning Safari in .308 NM.......the moose can't tell the difference......Harold
 
Rembo said:
Good call as the Norma holds less powder than the Win and the H&H. But I've seen that the Norma has the same magical case shape when compared to the 300 Win as the 280AI has when compared to the 7 Rem Mag.....that is,...less powder equals more velocity.
And, I've owned all of them.
Click to expand...

Whew !! I was afraid you were going to put down the 308 Norma just when I thought I'd take advantage of the 308 Norma loving and flog mine for a fortune.... oh well, next time....
 
I would like to thank those who have replied, sum good info, all thought a few differences,
From what I can gather, they are close enough, to make no real world difference, and that individual results and rifles, may see either or better the other, from time to time,
don't much matter, I will stick with the H&H, due to having brass and dies already,
Hoping to work with the 200g to 210gr at 2900 ish, and if I can dial out to 600m, I be much happier taking a long shot at a deer or thar, across a gully, than with the .264win, or 7x57, I am currently using, and better choice for Africa plains game,
now to talk to clay. $$$ being so low, might not be so great.
 
C-fbmi is correct in specs vs specs Rod not sure how u arrived at your conclusions but u may want to reevaluate your data . Pre 64 model 70 since 1977/ rem 721 / rem 700 classic / ruger 1s /all in 300h&h as u can c my fave. Great cartridge capable of all but the biggest game on the planet and other30 calibes have fps of 100-150 more or less it does not matter dead is dead
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom