My son is showing an interest in possibly trying cowboy action shooting. I'd probably try it as well. I like western guns but not a fan of dress up, which is the reason I haven't tried it before. We just picked up an Uberti 1866 carbine in 44-40. We've had a Marlin 1894 in 45 Colt for awhile that he's been plinking with but he's a bit of a crow, shiny things catch his eye so now we have the 1866 as well. My question is how important is it to have carbine and revolvers in the same chambering? I see the convenience factor but I'm guessing a lot of people might shoot different loads in each anyway. We're looking for a single action pistol (2 if he continues to be interested) and trying to decide if we should stick to 44-40 or if 45 Colt is ok if we find a deal. I doubt we will ever be hardcore maybe 2-3 matches a season. I'm set up to reload both 44-40 and 45 colt. In a perfect world I'd go 38/357 for cost but my son likes things to be historically accurate as well. I should have never let him watch Hell on Wheels lol.
Cowboy Action Guns
- Thread starter fwm
- Start date
So long as you remember that these 5 go in this revolver, these other 5 go in that revolver, and those other 10 get loaded in the lever you can show up with everything in a different calibre. The only problem is if you have to keep changing your press over to load so many different calibres before this afternoon's match! So a lot of cowboys try to standardize on just one calibre, plus you feel more symmetric with two revolvers the same.
Yes I would definitely keep the revolvers in the same chambering just wondering about rifle/pistol loads. Do most cowboys shoot the same load in both for simplicity? I load many different cartridges so that's not an issue. I load handgun rounds mostly on a Lee turret press so changing is quick and easy. Changing the powder measure takes the longest. I'm working on getting a Lee micro adjust drum for each so I just have to change the drum not messing around with setting it up.
old303 pretty much covered your question. About all I'd add is that many cowboy shooters like to stick to the KISS principle, and will often shoot the same caliber/load in both revolvers/rifles. Some do mix and match, though. So never an issue, unless you forget ammo for one or the other. Have seen it happen at a major match. Still, nothing wrong with doing so. In fact, your combination of .45/.44-40 is one seen fairly often.
As a matter of interest, for anyone interested in the sport, one of the best current cowboy action you tube sources(if not already aware of it)...is [I]jedi tv[/I]. Hosted by Cowboy action shooter Jed I Knight. Contains plenty of useful information. Plus, video action of actual matches. Definitely worth a look.
By the way, Jed mixes and matches his revolvers/rifles, too. .38 Special/.44-40...45 Colt/.44-40. Plus, percussion revolvers. Never an issue for him, so far.
You mentioned you don't like dressing up. Unlike many other shooting disciplines, cowboy action likes to get right into the flavour of the Old West. It is one of the unique things about the sport that makes it attractive to so many folks. So, costuming is an integral part of it. But that doesn't mean you have to go all out. A minimum of long sleeved shirt, jeans and work boots, are fully acceptable attire. Top it off with a suitable cowboy hat, and you're all set.
Hope this helps
Cal
ps: For a more complete overview of cowboy action rules, etc., go to the Single Action Shooting Society website. The Shooters Handbook has all the info you need to get started.
For local match info, go to the OSASF (Ontario Single Action Shooting Federation) site, for match dates/places, etc. Not so much going on this season, due to Covid. Though matches are being held. But under normal conditions, it is often possible to compete just about any weekend, throughout the summer. Some clubs also host indoor matches throughout the winter months.
As a matter of interest, for anyone interested in the sport, one of the best current cowboy action you tube sources(if not already aware of it)...is [I]jedi tv[/I]. Hosted by Cowboy action shooter Jed I Knight. Contains plenty of useful information. Plus, video action of actual matches. Definitely worth a look.
By the way, Jed mixes and matches his revolvers/rifles, too. .38 Special/.44-40...45 Colt/.44-40. Plus, percussion revolvers. Never an issue for him, so far.
You mentioned you don't like dressing up. Unlike many other shooting disciplines, cowboy action likes to get right into the flavour of the Old West. It is one of the unique things about the sport that makes it attractive to so many folks. So, costuming is an integral part of it. But that doesn't mean you have to go all out. A minimum of long sleeved shirt, jeans and work boots, are fully acceptable attire. Top it off with a suitable cowboy hat, and you're all set.
Hope this helps
Cal
ps: For a more complete overview of cowboy action rules, etc., go to the Single Action Shooting Society website. The Shooters Handbook has all the info you need to get started.
For local match info, go to the OSASF (Ontario Single Action Shooting Federation) site, for match dates/places, etc. Not so much going on this season, due to Covid. Though matches are being held. But under normal conditions, it is often possible to compete just about any weekend, throughout the summer. Some clubs also host indoor matches throughout the winter months.
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Thanks guys. I think I'll try for 44-40 revolvers but I won't sweat it if we end up with 45's. I do like that we don't get blow back in the rifle with the 44-40. I find it annoying with the Marlin 45 Colt. The cases don't seal the chamber. I've annealed the brass and that helps some, they probably need it again. Also hoping to try some .454 bullets as the commercial cast I have right now aren't quite .452.
fingers284
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Alberta Cowboy Ranges
As usual, Alex's post is spot on...but I will also add a "caution" to the 44-40 &.45 mixing. As stated there are a lot of shooters that use that combination and the most often seen problem at the firing line with them is a 44-40 rifle & .45 pistols and at the loading table a pistol round gets fed into a rifle mag tube by mistake. Most experienced shooters can distinguish between the two rounds instantly when picking one or the other up but someone that is new to the game or doesn't shoot much, it is an easy mistake to make.
While its not dangerous to have either round in the wrong gun...aa(a 44-40 will still fire in a .45 chamber but the slug just harmlessly rattles down-bore and might even hit the plate), and the .45 round wont chamber in your rifle...but it will lock the damn thing up in mid scenario. Usually, because you are working at speed , you jam the .45 case mouth/slug up into the 44-40 chamber that it requires a range rod to back it out.
The above happens often enough that it need to be mentioned. I was once timing a lady that was in her final stage of a Canadian Championship match and she was very much in the running for the title and she had the above scenario happen in her rifle, locked it up with 7 rounds still in the tube, 35 seconds in penalties and she lost the the championship by 20 seconds.....not a happy camper....
While its not dangerous to have either round in the wrong gun...aa(a 44-40 will still fire in a .45 chamber but the slug just harmlessly rattles down-bore and might even hit the plate), and the .45 round wont chamber in your rifle...but it will lock the damn thing up in mid scenario. Usually, because you are working at speed , you jam the .45 case mouth/slug up into the 44-40 chamber that it requires a range rod to back it out.
The above happens often enough that it need to be mentioned. I was once timing a lady that was in her final stage of a Canadian Championship match and she was very much in the running for the title and she had the above scenario happen in her rifle, locked it up with 7 rounds still in the tube, 35 seconds in penalties and she lost the the championship by 20 seconds.....not a happy camper....
I've been shooting Cowboy Action matches since 1997, I own firearms in multiple calibers that I can mix and match with. Currently I'm using a pair of .44 Mag Ruger "Original" Vaqueros and a Uberti M73 Carbine in .45LC. When I bring my firearms to the loading table I also bring a wooden loading block containing 10 rds of .44 & 10 rds of .45LC. The bases of the .45LC cartridges have a wide red stripe made by a marker pen across the base. I've been shooting this combination for close to 8 years now and never had a problem mixing calibers up. The advantages of using a loading block made of either wood or leather can eliminate any number of stupid mistake plus you won't be considered one of those extremely inconsiderate individuals that clutter out the loading table with ammunition boxes.
Garand nailed it. Every mixed caliber cowboy shooter I know, marks their cases in such a way that they are instantly recognizable at the loading table. The alternative of course, separate each caliber cartridge by way of dedicated loading blocks/strips, etc. Stay organized...and a person can't go wrong.
I have also witnessed nearly the identical scenario Fingers284 described. Fortunately for the competitor, rifle was first...the .45 round was the first chambered. Gun locked up solidly...but no rounds already downrange. SASS rules allow for a re-shoot, under these circumstances. Shooter returned and shot a clean stage. No more mix-ups, after that. This particular shooter now marks both rims and case bodies, too. As matter of interest, he went on to win his category.
I have also witnessed nearly the identical scenario Fingers284 described. Fortunately for the competitor, rifle was first...the .45 round was the first chambered. Gun locked up solidly...but no rounds already downrange. SASS rules allow for a re-shoot, under these circumstances. Shooter returned and shot a clean stage. No more mix-ups, after that. This particular shooter now marks both rims and case bodies, too. As matter of interest, he went on to win his category.
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Personally, I went to one caliber for my CAS NMVs and my rifle, although when I started, I had a .44 rifle, a cap & Ball .44 a .45 Vaquero and a Norinco JW 2000 open hammer.
After watching the "FUN" one posse member had after loading the wrong cartridge in his rifle, I made an effort to standardize my SAAs, and rifle calibers.
Never regretted it as it removed one potential issue at the loading table.
Now it I could only get out of the basement with my times!
After watching the "FUN" one posse member had after loading the wrong cartridge in his rifle, I made an effort to standardize my SAAs, and rifle calibers.
Never regretted it as it removed one potential issue at the loading table.
Now it I could only get out of the basement with my times!
Mixed calibres that are almost the same are asking for trouble. If you're shooting .38 and .45 then they're much more obviously different than .44 and .45.
Another trick is to use different bullets, RNFP for the lever-gun rounds in the one calibre and SWC or full-on wadcutters in your revolver's calibre. Or nickel cases for one, or brass vs nickel primers.
Keeping the different things you load visually different enough that you can tell them apart at a glance can be a lifesaver.
Another trick is to use different bullets, RNFP for the lever-gun rounds in the one calibre and SWC or full-on wadcutters in your revolver's calibre. Or nickel cases for one, or brass vs nickel primers.
Keeping the different things you load visually different enough that you can tell them apart at a glance can be a lifesaver.
I found that with the distances we are dealing with in CAS, I can use the same load and bullets in both my NMV's and either my'66 or my '73.
After measuring the cylinder throats and forcing cones, I have gone up in bullet diameter and tightened my crimp on the .45's and I seem to be getting a better powder burn using slightly less TB.
After measuring the cylinder throats and forcing cones, I have gone up in bullet diameter and tightened my crimp on the .45's and I seem to be getting a better powder burn using slightly less TB.
fingers284
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Alberta Cowboy Ranges
It may have changed but the rule books use to have a notation that "full wad-cutters" are verboten in SASS events, don't know if that is still relevant as I haven't actually read a handbook in 15 yrs at least. I can remember being puzzled why that would be a rule and never did figure it out but it was there.
Only a concern if your at a sanctioned SASS event or if your club religiously follows the handbook.
According to SASS rules, quote: "Ammunition with bullets recessed below the case mouth is not allowed." I do know some shooters who regularly compete using wad cutter bullets(Revolvers, only). But....the bullets are seated so that some of the bullet sits exposed above the case mouth. Then, the ammunition is perfectly legal for competition. I agree with Fingers284....full wad cutters are generally not an issue at casual club-level matches. But definitely, at a sanctioned match.
I believe this rule still remains part of the Ammunition Covenants section of the rule book, because... range officers or other match officials need to be able to ascertain easily (at a glance), whether ammunition is legal (and safe) for use. Jacketed bullets for example, are specifically prohibited. Lead bullets only are allowed. More difficult to check(at say, the loading table), with a bullet seated below the case mouth.
[I]Old303 offers some sound advice. Going to a different case type(Brass/nickle, etc.) is a good idea. Pretty easy to tell the difference. Likewise, different primers. Winchester vs Federal, etc. Easy to spot at a glance. Most shooters I know simply mark their cases with a Sharpie. Whatever works. Having all firearms chambered in the same caliber cartridge though, does save a lot of headaches.
I believe this rule still remains part of the Ammunition Covenants section of the rule book, because... range officers or other match officials need to be able to ascertain easily (at a glance), whether ammunition is legal (and safe) for use. Jacketed bullets for example, are specifically prohibited. Lead bullets only are allowed. More difficult to check(at say, the loading table), with a bullet seated below the case mouth.
[I]Old303 offers some sound advice. Going to a different case type(Brass/nickle, etc.) is a good idea. Pretty easy to tell the difference. Likewise, different primers. Winchester vs Federal, etc. Easy to spot at a glance. Most shooters I know simply mark their cases with a Sharpie. Whatever works. Having all firearms chambered in the same caliber cartridge though, does save a lot of headaches.
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My wife and I shoot .45 colt. I anneal the brass, but also only 3/4 size the brass.The area near the rim stays as fired...you can see the slight bulge. I was sizing 2/3 of the case...but while my wife's Marlin could cycle no problem, once in awhile I could feel a glitch where I had to give the lever a little more effort. Nothing serious, but noticeable when in the "rhythm". Can shoot a match or 2 and the brass carrier is still brass colored.
I just started shooting local CAS matches here about a year ago. My then 10 year old had come out to the range with me and we stepped over to watch a match. I told her we may be able to do it when she was older. Red, the range captain heard me and said she could start now! So, now many if my more 3 Gun and service post stuff has been cleared out for cowboy guns.
Most clubs would be happy to have you come out and watch a match. Heck, they probably would be tripping over themselves to lend you guns to shoot! You may want to go out and try some guns out there before you buy anything, unless you already know what you want.
I have little experience with 44-40, so take this with a grain of salt. Not many guys I know use them as the brass is usually more expensive (tend to lose some at the matches) and the cases have a tendency to collapse at the neck as they are thinner than 38 Special and 45 Colt. I am just repeating what several shooters have said about the 44-40; first lever I ever shot was a very old 1892 in 44-40 of my great grandfather's so I have an affection for the load.
I like your loading block Garand, I have been making a few of them here for me, my daughter (hers is 22), and a couple shooters just like that except with a space to break the rounds up into groups of 5. Working on a holster belt in between the bathroom reno work.
Most clubs would be happy to have you come out and watch a match. Heck, they probably would be tripping over themselves to lend you guns to shoot! You may want to go out and try some guns out there before you buy anything, unless you already know what you want.
I have little experience with 44-40, so take this with a grain of salt. Not many guys I know use them as the brass is usually more expensive (tend to lose some at the matches) and the cases have a tendency to collapse at the neck as they are thinner than 38 Special and 45 Colt. I am just repeating what several shooters have said about the 44-40; first lever I ever shot was a very old 1892 in 44-40 of my great grandfather's so I have an affection for the load.
I like your loading block Garand, I have been making a few of them here for me, my daughter (hers is 22), and a couple shooters just like that except with a space to break the rounds up into groups of 5. Working on a holster belt in between the bathroom reno work.
mark only one caliber cartridge case base with a black X, its not a difficult problem to solve.
As to different loads of the same cal. for rifle and handgun, Load for the rifle and let the revolver eat the same load.
For 5 match's a year cost difference is min. for 38 to 45
Cost more fore extra dies etc.
Look at :Ontario Single Action shooter Federation:, sale page, cowboys are selling there second set of guns.
For 5 match's a year cost difference is min. for 38 to 45
Cost more fore extra dies etc.
Look at :Ontario Single Action shooter Federation:, sale page, cowboys are selling there second set of guns.
