Cowboy Action Shooting Firearms and Ammo

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dodgecrew

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Interested in getting into cowboy action shooting and have questions regarding firearm choices and allowed ammo. I have checked out the Ontario Single Action website for the basic info.
I already reload 38spl and 357mag but with Campro 158gn plated bullets but do you have to use lead only bullets?
I have a slick shooting Rossi 357mag lever action 16" barrel and a not so smooth shooting Henry Big Boy Steel 357mag 16.5" barrel to use.
Looking at purchasing 2 Uberti 1873 Cattleman revolvers, any thoughts on revolver choice?
Looking at purchasing a Stoeger double 20" barrel coach 12g shotgun, any thoughts on shotgun choice?
Where is a good place to buy lead bullets for reloading in Ontario? Also leather holsters, ammo belt, etc. I am in North Bay area.
I also have a Marlin and Henry 44mag lever action rifles but would rather shoot 38spl or 357mag to keep reloading costs down.
Is there anybody in the North Bay area that is into Cowboy Action Shooting? I belong to the Rockcut Shooting Club.
 
Dennis at Shooters Den in Sudbury normally always stocks .357, .430 and .452 hard cast bullets for revolver and ? rifle. Load light for RAPID 10 yard pistol. SASS in s ont. requires small shot for short range shotgun(fear of ricochets at 10 yards). I used to shoot SASS at Orangeville and Kitchener.
 
BEFORE you spend ANY money, go to the SASS https://www.sassnet.com/ website. Down load the Shooters manual. Read it, yes it is boring but it will explain the different categories and the firearms and clothing required for each. While most clubs in Canada are not SASS affiliated, virtually all pay lip service to the dress code and safety rules of SASS.

Personal opinion, dump the Rossi & the Henry and buy a Winchester M73 clone in either .357 or .45 Long Colt depending on the category you chose. .45 Long Colt is a better choice if you also want to shoot Wild Bunch, as you don't have to buy another rifle. The M73 is the go to rifle for SASS competition and you will never have to up grade (take my word for it from personal experience)

The Stoeger SXS Coach Gun is excellent, very easy to slick up. I have 3 for my wife and myself.

Personally I prefer the "Original" Ruger Vaqueros built before 2004, I have them in pairs of .44mag, .45 LC & .357. One of my .44's put over 20,000+ rds down range before the transfer bar broke. My wife likes her SASS New Vaqueros due to the lighter weight.
 
Thanks for the info. I already had read the cowboy action shooters manual was nice to download them all. I read that SASS ammo needs to be lead only vice my plated Campro bullets. Why is the Winchester 1873 a better rifle to use? Cowboy Classic says no 1892 or 1894 models and also doesnt list 357mag/38spl but B Western does. I was looking to buy another 357mag Marlin 1894 or Winchester 1892 but I guess that limits one to the B Western. I was still looking at 1873 the Uberti Cattleman or Horseman as I have physically handled them but don't know anybody with the Ruger Vaquero (or local gun shops that have one). I like 45colt but don't own anything in that calibre. Are the Uberti 1873 clones any good?
 
The Uberti 73 clones are excellent rifles and have a lot of aftermarket parts like short stroke and spring kits, which you will almost certainly want to budget for on top of the rifle. If you've ever shot a bone stock Uberti and one that's been slicked up, the difference is very noticeable and almost certainly impacts your times. The rifle is one place you don't want to cheap out. Based on ammo costs, I'd generally recommend .357/.38 (and because you will always find someone shooting that calibre if you ever forgot ammo or something). Plus the recoil is quite light.

Ruger Vaqueros are almost certainly the most popular SAA clones used in the game, but they are not true replicas as they have a non-traditional mechanism . Opening the loading gate unlocks the cylinder, they use a transfer bar system rather than having the firing pin on the hammer, and only two hammer positions as opposed to the four of the original Colt design. They're also quite expensive if you're starting out. If they're out of your price range (new or used) you can definitely still be competitive with any of the other clones from Pietta, Uberti, etc. that more accurately copy the Colt design. I run Pietta pistols and they work just beautifully. If you ever upgrade later, you can keep them as backup guns. I'd keep the pistol calibres in line with the rifle - it just makes ammo management easier.

The Stoeger Coach Gun is a great shotgun for CAS, but like the rifle it really benefits a lot from having a little work done to it to smooth up and chamfer the chambers, smooth up the extractor action, and disconnect the auto safety engagement.

You'll need to get a holster rig and may want a separate shotgun belt, depending on how you want to run your equipment. There are a few people at my club who do custom leather work, but I think for most it's kind of a side thing and I don't know if they take orders from just anyone.

Ammo-wise, I don't have anywhere in the house to do reloading so I mostly just shoot factory ammo, which is generally jacketed. For club-level matches this is just fine, but for sanctioned matches you can only use lead bullets. For that I save my brass and have another club member load rounds for me.

Check out https://www.osasf.ca/, which lists club matches all around Ontario and also has a classifieds section that might help you get started. I shoot at the Barrie Gun Club (known as the Bar-E Ranch). I know it's a bit of a drive for you, but they run matches the second and fourth Saturday of each month. It's $20 to play and you get a homemade dinner included.
 
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Great info. Was going to the Barrie CAS today but it was cancelled and the weather here in North Bay is crap right now. Where do you get spare parts for the Pietta's, warranty etc? What models are they? Revolvers choices Pietta, Uberti, Arminus, Taylor and Ruger? Pros and Cons for spare parts availability. What length barrel would be good 4.6, 4.75 or 5.5? I know that there are alot of parts for Uberti 1873 but how do they compare to the Winchester Miroku 1873?
 
dodgecrew said:
Great info. Was going to the Barrie CAS today but it was cancelled and the weather here in North Bay is crap right now. Where do you get spare parts for the Pietta's, warranty etc? What models are they? Revolvers choices Pietta, Uberti, Arminus, Taylor and Ruger? Pros and Cons for spare parts availability. What length barrel would be good 4.6, 4.75 or 5.5? I know that there are alot of parts for Uberti 1873 but how do they compare to the Winchester Miroku 1873?
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You got really good info so far, for parts and gunsmithing for my Colts I like Peter aka RustyWood at Rustywood.ca (sponsor here). check his website for his work and prices.
OK
 
dodgecrew said:
Great info. Was going to the Barrie CAS today but it was cancelled and the weather here in North Bay is crap right now. Where do you get spare parts for the Pietta's, warranty etc? What models are they? Revolvers choices Pietta, Uberti, Arminus, Taylor and Ruger? Pros and Cons for spare parts availability. What length barrel would be good 4.6, 4.75 or 5.5? I know that there are alot of parts for Uberti 1873 but how do they compare to the Winchester Miroku 1873?
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I bought the Piettas from Marstar, if I recall (I've had them a few years now). Most key parts are fairly interchangeable and I know Taylor sells a spare parts kit (screws and the like). I've never had to order anything from Pietta specifically, but I suppose I'd contact a dealer and ask them.

Mine are the 1873 SA Peacemaker 4.75". The specific part number of mine is pt-sa73-006. Barrel length is a personal choice - the game is as much about style and character as it is about speed and performance (for most anyway). I suppose it's slightly quicker to draw a shorter barreled pistol than a longer one, but I doubt it's enough of a difference compared to all other factors. You're generally shooting stuff within a fairly short range, so accuracy differences are probably also minute.

Here's an older YouTube video where Marstar was going through their Pietta line: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aRNcbR17RXs however, I'm sure those prices have gone up a little since then.

I don't have enough personal experience to speak of the differences between the Italian manufacturers, but I've not seen firearms from any of those brands that looked bad or were reported as having issues from their owners.

And yeah, they cancelled today's match in light of the weather predictions, but hopefully we can catch you at another one soon!
 
ArcticHound said:
Ammo-wise, I don't have anywhere in the house to do reloading so I mostly just shoot factory ammo, which is generally jacketed. For club-level matches this is just fine, but for sanctioned matches you can only use lead bullets. For that I save my brass and have another club member load rounds for me.

Check out https://www.osasf.ca/, which lists club matches all around Ontario and also has a classifieds section that might help you get started. I shoot at the Barrie Gun Club (known as the Bar-E Ranch). I know it's a bit of a drive for you, but they run matches the second and fourth Saturday of each month. It's $20 to play and you get a homemade dinner included.
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Shooting jacketed ammo might be good where you shoot but the clubs where I shoot in Alberta and Saskatchewan, won't even let you drop the hammer on anything but lead bullets IAW SASS rules. Before you even get to the first stage you will politely be asked to leave or change to more appropriate ammunition.
 
dodgecrew said:
Great info. Was going to the Barrie CAS today but it was cancelled and the weather here in North Bay is crap right now. Where do you get spare parts for the Pietta's, warranty etc? What models are they? Revolvers choices Pietta, Uberti, Arminus, Taylor and Ruger? Pros and Cons for spare parts availability. What length barrel would be good 4.6, 4.75 or 5.5? I know that there are alot of parts for Uberti 1873 but how do they compare to the Winchester Miroku 1873?
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I currently have 3 Uberti M73's in .357 & .45 LC, my wife has a Miroku M73 in .357, you are very well served by either manufacturer. The reason that the Uberti is more popular is that they have been on the market longer. As for barrel length in your handguns, length counts for very little in accuracy because of the size of the targets and the distance. The place barrel length really makes a difference is when you have to reholster your pistols on the clock. Shorter barrels go in the holster faster, which can save seconds on the clock. If you are looking for a reliable cowboy gunsmith, I also recommend Rusty Woods, he has done 8 of my guns so far and I have 3 more in his shop right now.
 
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Excellent advice, so far. One suggestion I would add: Go to a few cowboy action matches. Before deciding on which guns or leather to buy. Talk to the folks. See what they use and prefer. Cowboy action shooters are likely the friendliest and most generous people in any shooting sports. Don't be afraid to ask a lot of questions. Or seek their guidance. Some of the replies you've gotten on this thread, so far, should be a good example of what to expect. Most will offer to let you try out different guns etc., so as to get a good feel for what works best...for you. Or, even lend you gear, if you don't have all of it, at your first couple of matches.

Also: Don't cheap out on your leather(belts, holsters, etc.). Buy the best you can afford. There is nothing that will let you down or fail quicker, than cheap holsters, etc. Usually at the worst possible time, in a match. About the only Ontario cowboy leather source I can think of right off hand, is 'Working Cowboy', in Chatham. There might be others, but... most of the top leather makers are in the U.S. For example: Mernickle, Doc Noper, El Paso Saddlery, etc. Plus, many more custom makers. No problem ordering any of this gear from the States. Aside from the exchange. Again....ask plenty of questions. Then decide which maker suits best.
You can likely order DRG lead bullets through your local gunshop. Or direct, from Hummason, in Ancaster. Another option is to cast your own, as many do. Wheelweight lead is often easy to source. Plus: Lee, for example, is also a good source for reasonably priced bullet molds. Many shooters favour bullets in the 125-130 grain range. You may eventually prefer heavier or lighter bullets.... as many do. But this gives some idea where to start.
As for bullet shape, or type: LRNFP(lead,round nosed flat point), or LTCFP (lead, truncated cone flat point), are the most popular choices in bullets, suitable for cowboy action. Avoid using semi-wadcutter, or wadcutter bullets. The sharp shoulder on the semi-wadcutter's nose profile tends to jam in the chamber mouth of 1866 and 1873 rifles. These rifles prefer either the RNFP, or TCFP profile, to function smoothly. Marlin, or Rossi rifles will often digest the semi-wadcutter bullet with ease. But these are the exception. ALL rifle manufacturers will shoot RNFP/TCFP.
Great advice on rifle choices, so far. Whichever brand of rifle you choose, get one with at least a 19-20" barrel. Anything shorter than that, and you will need to reload on the clock. Not the best option, if you want to be competitive.
Hopefully, once the weather co-operates, you can get down to Barrie and check out one of their shoots. Great bunch of folks, there. Be sure to ask for 'Crow'. The man is a gold mine of information.
 
Further, on rifle choice: As already mentioned, Model 1873 Winchester clones(Uberti, Miroku), are favoured by many shooters. For several reasons. First: This type of rifle features a simple, toggle-link action action, that is very smooth and fast to operate. When hundredths of a second count(I've witnessed this, more than once), between say: First and Fifth place, at a major match...this can often make a huge difference. Plus, they are very easy to 'slick up", in order to run at the speeds necessary for top competitive shooting.
Uberti rifles lead the pack, in this regard. The Uberti brand has been around for quite a few years. So...there are plenty of aftermarket parts available to tune and modify these rifles for competition. The new Miroku-Winchester rifles are also excellent. At this point in time, these rifles lack the aftermarket support Uberti enjoys. But, as these rifles become more popular....I expect to see that change. Given a choice between the two(I own both makes of rifles) I would favour Uberti, at this time...ONLY.. because of support. Rusty Wood Trading is a good source, for all your parts needs. As a matter of interest, many folks(including myself) consider Rusty(Peter) one of the best....if not the best cowboy gunsmith in Canada. I've always enjoyed excellent service from his shop. You won't be disappointed.
The Miroku-Winchester 1873 rifles in stock form, are very smooth and fast....plus certainly capable of running competitively... right out of the box. And require little in the way of 'tuning', to make them run even better. In fact, if you'd like to see an example of this, go to the 'SASS Wire Forum', and look in the archives for World Champion Deuce Stevens' video(aired early last spring), where he takes a new Miroku 1873 right out of the box and shoots it in a competition. A real eye opener.
Another advantage of the 1873 platform, is its ease of maintenance. The detachable sideplates on the '73 provide easy access to the links, bolt, etc. Which makes the rifle very easy to clean, maintain, or replace parts. They are also dead simple to strip.
That's not to say that the Model 1892/94 rifles can't compete. They certainly can. Though stronger than the 1873, these rifles are a bit more mechanically complex. Which makes them a bit harder to strip down. But, they can run almost as fast as a '73, when properly tuned. So, if you prefer a Marlin 1894, or Miroku '92, for example...you will be well equipped.
Hope this info is useful.
 
Garand said:
Shooting jacketed ammo might be good where you shoot but the clubs where I shoot in Alberta and Saskatchewan, won't even let you drop the hammer on anything but lead bullets IAW SASS rules. Before you even get to the first stage you will politely be asked to leave or change to more appropriate ammunition.
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Fair point - I should have specified club-level matches at my club rather than allowing someone to infer all club-level matches allowing it.
 
Great advice provided in this thread. Thanks to all!

I would like to ask if it is better/recommended to order holsters with thongs and leg tie straps?

Also, any places recommended for cowboy attire? I don't know any at the present.
 
Clothing, in my house my wife builds the costumes and does bathrooms and I build ammo and clean guns. Fair deal, works for both of us. Everywhere we go she always hits a local second hand store(s) for "period" clothing, which actually works out quite well, and cheaply also. If you are flush with cash, order from Wild West Mercantile in Mesa Arizona. They have a very good mail order business, very customer oriented. A word on holsters, they are a very personal item, on your first purchase (if you like this sport there will be more) DO NOT spend the family fortune. There are places like "Leathertown USA" where you can get a functional set for about $150.00, look around. After you have shot 10 or 12 matches you will start wanting a gun belt combination that suits your own personal shooting style. Buy modular when you finally decide what setup serves you best.

Personally I like thongs on my holsters since the holster can't move on my modular belt, my wife has a custom made belt where the saddle leather is so thick that she doesn't need a leg strap.
 
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