cowboy action shooting, need advice...

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ruger22

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I want to try cowboy action shooting.
I have heard that cowboy shooters are friendly and open to new shooters.

I own a 357 new vaquero. I will need to get shopping for some gear.
Need advice...

What model of shotgun is common to start with?

Rifle will be a marlin. I thought it could double as a short range deer gun too. So I am thinking of 44 mag.
I am no clutz with gear or guns. Is it ok to start with using 2 calibers?

Is it possible to borrow holsters to try out the various types?

thanks...
 
When I started in CAS I already had a Ruger Blackhawk and a Marlin 94. All I needed was a second revolver and a shotgun. For the first year I borrowed a friend's blackhawk and I bought a double for about $180. In our shoots we allow new shooters to use double action revolvers for the first year. This gets them shooting without having to spend a lot.

I shoot .357 Ruger Blackhawks (38 special loads). In my rifle I use an old Marlin in 44 Magnum. I have had no problems using two different cartridges.

What you don't want to do is have a different cartridge for each of your handguns. Also very bad would be to use two cartridges that are close in size. I can't mistake my 38 Specials for my 44 Magnum. But if you shot 44 Magnum and 45 Colt you would end up with a lot of trouble.

As far as a shotgun I use a CIL double barrel cut down to 18.5". There has been a lot of people moving to pumps but I like the doubles.

If you want to see some pictures I have last year's match photos on the Winnipeg Revolver & Pistol web site. http://www.mts.net/~wrpa/

Not a lot of pictures of me since I'm the guy behind the camera. My gear is authentic cowboy. Cheap. Real cowboys didn't have a lot of money. My leather doesn't look fancy but it holds my guns well.

Rudy.jpg


On the Marlin above. It only holds 9 rounds of 44 magnum. Some stages are written for 10 rounds. I have to reload one at times. Also my gun has micro-groove rifling. Lead bullets are fine at cowboy velocities. For full power (not cowboy action) use jacketed bullets. At full power the lead bullets strip the rifling and you loose accuracy.

I have been shooting 240g SWC bullets. I would rather have 200g as they would be a little shorter. Also the crimp groove on my current bullets is further back (allows more powder I guess) and this makes the cartridge longer than others I had used. The longer length adds up and can limit capacity in the tube. Also if you can use flat front round nose bullets rather than semi-wad cutters. The round nose should feed better.
 
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Most will let you try out their guns. As far as loaning some will but it does cause an inconvenience. You have to have enough separation between the shooters. If they had to shoot and you were up right behind them then you can't be ready when it's your turn because they are unloading when you should be shooting. Also we all perform management tasks at the match. Sometimes you are watching for hits on the targets (scoring), picking brass, manning the loading or unloading tables, etc. Sharing a gun is just one more thing to make things not run as smoothly. We do it but it can be a problem.

Also some guys don't like the idea of someone else's handloads in their gun. Did you put in a double charge? Some will let you shoot their guns only with their ammo. That means they have to spend time loading the ammo for you. Some are ok with this.

While loaning a handgun is ok you still need a holster for it. Someone may loan you the gun but they will not be taking off their belt and holsters for you to use.

Shotguns are the easiest to borrow. There is not a lot of concern about the ammo since you go buy some cheap 12 gauge shells and you are unlikely to cause any problem with their shotgun.

It really helps to know the people you are shooting with. If you showed up at a match where you don't know anyone and ask if someone has a gun you could use I don't think you would get any offers. Find out where a match is held and go out to watch. Before the match, at lunch or when convenient talk to the shooters. Ask what you need and explain what you have. You may get some offers.

Not sure about pumps. I know some are using Norinco.
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Or lever actions.
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Or original guns
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Shotguns must be period correct, so if you want to use a pump you will have to use a Win.'97 or copy or one of the old Marlin pumps with a hammer. i have to disagree with an earlier poster in regards to Lead stripping in the rifling.....Even Micro-grooved barrels can work well with hard cast GC bullets at top velocities providing the bullet has been sized to the right diameter!
 
ben hunchak said:
Shotguns must be period correct, so if you want to use a pump you will have to use a Win.'97 or copy or one of the old Marlin pumps with a hammer. i have to disagree with an earlier poster in regards to Lead stripping in the rifling.....Even Micro-grooved barrels can work well with hard cast GC bullets at top velocities providing the bullet has been sized to the right diameter!
Click to expand...

Yes you can get lead to work but it is not as easy as buying a box of bullets and expecting them to work. If you like to do a lot of experimenting then why not. If you are only going to use the gun to hunt once in a while (deer season) then it may be a lot easier to just buy jacketed bullets that produce desired results.

I'm glad someone else responded to the post. I was hoping to see more information. My viewpoint is limited to Winnipeg area shooters. Would be nice to hear from different parts of Canada.
 
i guess my point is that cast bullets in say a .44 can do what no jacketed bullets can do, cut a wide path completely through the animal due to wide meplat of bullet and not expand too much to stop bullet short of complete penetration. Combine this with the fact that cast bullets attain the same speed with less pressure(and barrel wear), and are available in heavier and better designs. There is actually no need for jacketed bullets in most of the slower(below 2000fps) chamberings, they are gimmicks that have been marketed well based on inaccurate comparisons similar to the ones above.
 
I shoot CAS and it is a lot of fun. My suggestion is find out when the next CAS shoot or practice in your area is. Show up , help, ask questions , stay the length of the event, help pack up the steel. Show up at the next one with the gear you have , ask if you can shoot a modified course for experience, not score , because of your lack of gear, see what happens. They may let you shoot half the stage or lend you something. Don't buy too much until you have talked to a bunch of people in the sport, and don't listen to only one, get a few opinions. You really don't want to run out and buy what you think you need , only to find out it is not performing well in competition.
 
I have a complete set of guns in both .357 and .44 Mag. There is absolutely no problem shooting 2 different calibers. Alot of shooters use wooden loading blocks to carry their ammo to the loading table. In most cases all holes are in 1 caliber, but there is no problem building a loading block that has holes in 2 calibers.

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As for shotguns, I started off with a double barrel and progressed to a Winchester M97(but NOT a Trench gun, they aren't allowed in serious matches). Norinco guns are hit and miss, you either absolutely love them or absolutely detest them. There is no middle ground. An original serviceable Winchester M97 can still be had between $325.00 to $425.00 if you shop around.

A lot of Cowboy shooters have backup guns in case of breakdown in the middle of a match. If you ask nicely, some shooters will even lend you a spare firearm during the match if they have it. So, where in Alberta are you? Depending on your location I can give you even more info.
 
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Try the AFSS (Alberta Frontier Shootists) website for a lot of great local info on shoots and equipment.
I always tell new shooters not to buy anything untill they try some loaned equipment and learn what it is they really want before they spend a lot.
"Doc" Thompson SASS #72011
 
For getting started in CAS, you'd better have some pennies saved up, as it ain't cheap. Here are some tips:

Start simple and try to get your rifle and pistols in one caliber. It helps for logistics. On a pure cost note, .38 SPL / .357 Mag is the cheapest way to go. Unless you reload, it's about half the cost of .45 Colt, and .44-40.

Shotguns: Personal preference is the SXS shotgun. Look for some used models, or if you have a SXS shotgun, just bring it along. The only thing it can't have are automatic ejectors. I prefer the SXS, and I managed to find a used Stoeger Coach gun for $250 (US). You can always "upgrade" later to a Winchester 97 Pump Action, or 1887 Lever action. Norinco makes some pretty good replicas that are reasonably priced.

Rifles: Marlin Lever actions are NICE. Taylor is ok. Again, look for used, and there are tons of different models out there. Don't worry about the micro-groove rifling as it really doesn't affect accuracy for CAS distances. Slide Actions are neat, and they also have more than a 10 round ammo capacity, so not sure if they are allowed up there.

Pistols: I shoot with Taurus Gauchos, which are ok, but have some QC issues and since you all are in Canada, I am not sure how their support is to you. So, if I had a choice to do over again, I would get Rugers in 357. Again, try to make sure the calibers match the rifle so you can use the same ammo.
Another option, the SA 1895 Nagant revolvers are legal :dancingbanana: . They cost between 70-150 bucks each down here and shoot .32 S&W Long ammo all day.
 
tinygnat219 that is interesting information on the Nagant revolvers. Too bad they are prohibited here in Canada (nasty gang banger .32 caliber!) I have shot different calibers in my revolvers and rifle and even different caliber revolvers. It can be done but requires a lot of concentration at the loading table with people talking to you, thinking about the last stage and how you messed it up, thinking about the upcoming stage and how best to shoot it. If at all possible I would keep all calibers the same. If you enjoy Cowboy Action (and you will) you will likely end up with more than one set of guns so if a good deal on a rifle comes along buy it, if not .38 then you can match it up with your next set of revolvers!

I have shot SxS's and 97's and prefer the SxS's for a couple of reasons. I find them simpler to operate, (open, load, close, fire) the 97's aren't difficult to operate but I find I tend to start rushing and short stroke it, or jam the shell in sideways, or miss the port altogether and have to grab another shell. With a little practice all that could be overcome, the main reason I don't shoot them is I have never ever seen a pump shotgun in a cowboy movie (Wild Bunch ain't a cowboy movie).
 
I don't believe the Nagant is prohibited because it is a 7.62x38r (.30 caliber ). To shoot .32 long ,I think you have to buy a new manufactured .32 cylinder. But you can make rounds for the original loading, using .32-20 WCF cases.
 
Actually, on the Nagant, you don't need to change the cylinder, it fires just fine.

You mean .32 ammo is illegal up there? :eek:
Ummm, why? It's a mediocre caliber at best.
If 7.62X38R ammo is legal, or 7.62X25 ammo is legal, why isn't .32ACP, or .32 S&W Long? That makes no sense whatsoever.

Wow...

I shoot .357 Magnum out of Taurus Gauchos with 4 and 3/4 and 5 and 1/2 inch barrels in Stainless steel. I also have a matching Marlin 1894 Lever Action. These are VERY fun guns to fire, especially the rifle in .357 Magnum. No recoil, and deadly accurate out to 100 yards.
:dancingbanana:
 
thanks for all the tips...

So, where in Alberta are you? Depending on your location I can give you even more info.
Fort Mcmurray.


Used Marlin rifle in 357 or 44 or 45 70?
There seems to be a big demand for them second hand.
I would buy one today. Good used for a fair price.

I will look around for a list of the BC, Sask, and Alberta shoots for 07.


thanks...
 
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