Cowitness. What is the big hype?

sylencer

sylencer

Regular
Rating - 100%
11   0   0
Hey everyone, I recently shot a pistol with cowitness sights. And I gotta say I prefer having the dot above my sights in order to get full use of my red dot aligning with my target direct. (and not my front post) And having a nice clear field of view around my red dot. (simular as to people shaving their AR iron post to a low profile or using flip up irons, for better field of view when using a red dot)
Now I shoot an m&p performance centre with a delta point pro so my iron sights are on my gun. However, my sight is too high to cowitness. I was going to consider selling my sight but after trying the cowitness, I don't want to cowitness my dot.

So aside from having a reliable back up iron sights for competition. What benefits are their from cowitness?
 
To me the biggest advantage is as a backup just in case the red dot fail. On top of that I do find I can find the red dot faster as a frame of reference of the iron sights. There are cases when crouching really low or in a different shooting position from usual I lost track of the red dot. Having a frame of reference as an iron sight I can find the dot much faster.
 
I use a type 2 RMR on a glock 19 mos with the trijicon suppressor height sights specifically so they do co witness.

On my draw, I pick up my front sight. If the dot is there I focus on the target and away we go. If the dot isn't there, no time lost hunting for it as you continue with a normal presentation and line up your irons.

I always leave the rmr on and the dot isn't ever not there but that's how I like to train anyways. I should say that this will have little to no benefit if you are shooting bullseyes from a static position. If you are shooting "defensively" this is almost a must for rapid target acquisition in a variety of positions.
 
I definitely understand the one benefit of "if it dies during a match" then you won't lose much time or miss. I shoot competitions all the time and have found the red dot does slow me down slightly in certain positions, however, I don't miss anymore now, where i may have before.

I have found with iron sights, I was a little to "lax" on the sight alignment and more about the speed. Causing me good times but sometimes some poor shot placement. I can no longer make those poor shots because as Deputy Rick Cologne says, "where ever the red dot goes, ya' bang"
 
Being able to see the irons through the optic is a good thing should the optic ever fail.

Aligning iron sights has enough issues that adding yet another element to the sight picture just doesn't make sense. Never could see the point of co-witness.
 
I'm a little confused here. I've never seen a red dot that is low enough to put the dot down where it lines up with the original pistol sights. On a AR style with the taller sights? Sure. But handgun sights sit low down close to the slide so the guns fit into a holster easily.

When I see the term "co-witnessed sights" my mind draws me a picture of the iron sights being up at the red dot and the iron sights and red dot are all lined up with the target out ahead. But I can't see this occurring with any handgun I know of. Especially since the only setups I've ever seen on semi auto guns the red dot is either one of the very small ones that replaces the rear sight or the RDS is on a mount that puts it up above the top of the slide and there's no way to see the iron sights through the red dot. So again "co-witness" would not be the proper term.

So what am I missing here?
 
I was all about co-witness until I had it on a rifle, and discovered I didn't like it. Too cluttered, and distracting. Like having an extra rear sight. Lower third co-witness is ok though. I prefer to always be able to fall back on irons though; see-through mounts, pop up irons, quick release optics, whatever.

Just one guys opinion though.
 
Not sure what cowitness means.

My 686 has a red dot on a mount that allows me to see/use the iron sights, in case the rds fails, simply by raising the revolver an inch. I do not see the irons through the rds.
 
mmattockx said:
I agree with you, I don't understand the point to it. Cowitness just clutters up the sight picture and makes the red dot sight less effective, IMO.
Click to expand...
I originally thought that myself (I mentioned it in my preliminary review of my FNX here) but once I started shooting RMR-sighted pistols I found the suppressor-height sights on my FNX to be hardly noticeable. I also found that shooting Glock 17 with an RMR and normal height sights it was easy to "lose" the dot since I had no frame of reference, whereas with my M&P CORE and the same RMR the higher sights help orient me if I bring the pistol up and can't see the dot.
 
easyrider604 said:
Not sure what cowitness means.

My 686 has a red dot on a mount that allows me to see/use the iron sights, in case the rds fails, simply by raising the revolver an inch. I do not see the irons through the rds.
Click to expand...

Cowitness means they are all on the same plane. So when you have proper sight alignment with the irons the red dot should be sitting right over the front post.
S&W_M&9_PC_Ported_038.JPG


BCRIDER. Yes it is very possible to cowitness on a pistol. Typically involves milling the slide down so the red dot sits lower and using suppressor height sights that are much taller. Also the red dots are Micro dots where the dot is only 1cm or so off the mounting base
IMG_0309-660x495.jpg


Cowitness is nice for beginners because it is sometimes a PITA finding the dot if drawing fast out of a holster. With a cowitness setup you draw and go for your irons like you have done since you started shooting and just before you get perfect sight alignment if the dot appears and its on target you can break your shot a little early.
 
Joka, that's a nice setup you posted. And yeah, with the right gear and for someone willing to do all that work to the gun I can see how you can have your cake and eat it too.

Still, considering the work involved on the example in your post I still wonder what the original poster's setup is like.
 
lavino said:
To me the biggest advantage is as a backup just in case the red dot fail. On top of that I do find I can find the red dot faster as a frame of reference of the iron sights. There are cases when crouching really low or in a different shooting position from usual I lost track of the red dot. Having a frame of reference as an iron sight I can find the dot much faster.
Click to expand...

^^^my sentiments exactly. I don't even notice the irons when I shoot with both eyes open.

BCRider, I'll let you run my G17 with RMR on it next time we get a chance...
 
BCRider said:
Joka, that's a nice setup you posted. And yeah, with the right gear and for someone willing to do all that work to the gun I can see how you can have your cake and eat it too.

Still, considering the work involved on the example in your post I still wonder what the original poster's setup is like.
Click to expand...

Pistols are now being manufactured with these options. No gunsmithing required anymore. The M&P Pro C.O.R.E series (Competition Optics Ready Equipment) and the Glock MOS (Modular optics System) are two platforms available today.
 
I hate cowitnessed sights. I find it distracting. I get a 1/3 riser (7mm?) for all my rifles with red dots just to get it up and out of the way...or flip down irons.
 
i picked up a M&P Pro Core back when they first hit the market and slapped a Leopold on it.
it co-witnesses right out of the box.

i must say i really like the co-witnessing of it.
so much so that with my recent purchase of a Glock 40 (10mm longslide) and it is the same as my M&P in that is is optics ready - but i will need to swap out the Glock sites to some suppressor sites so i can co-witness.

so why.
why co-witness?
for me i truly believe its a age thing.
there where no red dots on pistols for the last 30 years that ive been shooting them, now all of sudden they are all the rage.
the technology has passed me by i guess.
so when i get a red dot on there 2 things happen.
1 - i fear they will die and im left high and dry - so i need co-witness to cover that 1 in 1 million chance that it would ever happen.
2 - im use to irons - un-training myself to use irons and retraining myself to use red dot would take a lot of time, more then im willing to invest.
my eyes know to look for the iron and do it even if i have a red dot on it.

this isnt a pistol specific problem.
im doing the same on my AR's as well.
i put a red dot on them then i put flip up irons so i have them there for the above listed 2 reasons.

i watched a interesting video with a Seal or some such fella talking about optics on weapons.
he basically said that if your not using a red dot your behind the technology and as such are handicapping yourself to others that have and use it.
and that is probably true.

my beast

SampW%20MampP%209%20Pro%20CORE%2013_zpssqg7vjuc.jpg


co witness

356ED1B9-4A6F-4276-A5AB-C126179C01EC-1021-000004B0479EE721_zps3dc494df.jpg
 
Old thread but my thoughts on co witness.

Red dots have advantages and disadvantages. I got a 34 MOS with a Burris FF3. Now red dots I found to be more accurate, Ive been tighter groups at longer range than irons. Mainly that because I can see the dot, vs the not being able to see the front sight.

But the disadvantage I found was acquiring the sight. When you are shooting 1 handed or or using your weak hand. The few people I know shooting red dots all have that issue. Shooting left hand or one handed takes much longer to acquire the dot. And get off that round.

Last night shooting a PPC style stage using left hand, right hand ( one handed ) and than left had supported, It took longer to acquire the dot first and then had issue to continue to see it. Now I lose the most points sadly at the closer range, 5-10Y because having to shoot one handed.

Now this is where I can see the advantages of co witness or 1/3 co witness sights. Helps naturally line up everything, great for the non 2 handed shooting. I thus ordered sights that I can co witness or use at the close range.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom