Coyote cartridge pros and cons

I personally like the .221 Rem Fireball. With a 40 gn bullet it approaches .223 Rem speeds for 2/3 the powder (closer to 1/2). Here is a pic of my custom LVSF, I just changed the stock recently - it is my idea of the perfect walking/shooting gun...

Remington 700 LVSF (action trued, barrel setback and re-chambered), Titanium firing pin/lightweight shroud, Shilen trigger, Stock inletted for BDL floorplate, Leupold 4.5-14x40mm Varmint Reticle scope. It shoots really well.

LVSF1.jpg


221 does very little damage to the pelt.
 
Glock4ever said:
I personally like the .221 Rem Fireball. With a 40 gn bullet it approaches .223 Rem speeds for 2/3 the powder (closer to 1/2). Here is a pic of my custom LVSF, I just changed the stock recently - it is my idea of the perfect walking/shooting gun...

Remington 700 LVSF (action trued, barrel setback and re-chambered), Titanium firing pin/lightweight shroud, Shilen trigger, Stock inletted for BDL floorplate, Leupold 4.5-14x40mm Varmint Reticle scope. It shoots really well.

LVSF1.jpg


221 does very little damage to the pelt.
Click to expand...

NICE TOES:p:p

oh, and nice gun too!!!!
 
The fireball is cute and appealing - partially because it's unique. But, realistically, the 223 can achieve the same thing. Using reduced loads with faster powders - such as the famous 'blue dot' loads at ~12-13 grains. You're burning the same amount of powder, producing similar ballistics and muzzle blast.

Not that I'm speaking down on the 221. The Hornet is the same story, yet my hornet is by far my favourite gun, despite the fact that I could match all the attributes of the hornet with my 222 or 223.

Actually, yea - consider the 22 hornet for this application, too. You'd be limited to 150 to 200 yards effective yote busting range, but it's just such an irresistibly charming little cartridge and a ton of fun to shoot
 
I hope to take a yote this year with my 221 Fireball, with 40 grain Nosler Ballistic Tips @ 3400 fps with only 15.7 grs powder

toes are weird
 
I have a K-hornet, a 222 Remington and a 220 Swift (Not to mention 2-6mm Remingtons) The 22 Centerfires cover my Varminting from A-Z quite well. The K-Hornet and L'il Gun with 40's & 45's is such a great match, plus recoil and noise levels are low. Up to 175-200 yards, it will tip a coyote over very nicely, as several would attest to. The Swift is, IMHO, the ultimate 22 Factory Varmint Chambering. 4000+ is available with frangible 50 grain bullets, and 55's will make 3950 or a bit more. In calm conditions Hits out to 500 are not hard, and energy is still adequate to lay a coyote down quickly. On Crows, it's pure rapture to watch a solid hit with the Swift....nothing but feathers and wings hit the ground. :D The 222 fits in right where the 223 does, and my 788 Remington will cluster 5-50 grain v-maxes into .3moa or so with old Reloder 12. (yes, I still have some stashed away! :evil:) One added benefit from the smaller chamberings is you get a lot of shooting from a pound of powder. Regards, Eagleye.
 
Prosper: The 223 is a superior cartridge to the .221. I just don't like down loading a 223 with a faster powder as it doesn't seem to be as accurate and it just plain feels weird to shake a .223 case can feel so little powder in there. (I was loading IMR4227 in a 223 - trying to use up the powder to make practice rounds). But in my opinion the .22 Hornet and .221 Fireball are not even in the same league. Everything about the Hornet is a PITA. I had a hornet and the cases were too delicate, there is no shoulder, and I absolutely hate rimmed cartridges (esp. in rifles). The .221 is very comparable to the hornet for noise but it is much faster and the cases are more modern in design - bullet selection is also better for the fireball (if you restrict yourself to the hornet type bullets or if you have a .223 hornet vs.224 hornets). What is very frustrating is that the Hornet has such a large following compared to the fireball. It is difficult to get a variety of factory loads (it is the gauge of how successful a cartridge is in my mind). Probably because Remington is traditionally not as successful as other companies in marketing new cartridges...

BTW - I think I have ok looking toes - they aren't supermodel FABIO toes but they look normal...
 
i have some nosler factory whichest CT ballistic silver tips allong with s a few types of soft point and some 69 grain HP for bigger game sadly can't hand load yet would like to though

all .223

ps tod whats it like to not know which gun to use?
 
The limit with hornets is usually either twist (1-16) or short mags limiting COL. Solution the handi rifle :) 1-12 and no mag I had mine converted to k-hornet and on paper it gets close to k-hornet performance with a 50 gr blitz.

One advantage to shooting the smaler round rather than downloading is plain old portability 50 round of hornet fits in you pocket alot more comfortably that 50 rounds of 223.

Yes the 221 should have replace the hornet as the "Acerage" gun but like so many other better rounds they just can't seem to kill it off.
 
Well, based on all the sage advice given here, I have dropped the 243 from consideration. The key point was that if you are prepared to blow big holes in them with the 243, why not use a REAL deer rifle. I have a 300 WSM that would just fit the bill, using that logic.

I am now vacillating between the 223 and the 22-250 (with the .204 lurking in the background). Now I'm wondering if I should get a walking varminter, or go with a full house, heavy barrel jobbie. What do you think?

Incidentally, I have a Browning 1885 LoWall in 22 Hornet which I think is the perfect "acreage" gun. I can pop gophers at 150 yards from my bedroom window. My wife hates gophers, and she runs ahead of me, spotting for gophers and opening the windows. I suppose that will end the first time I touch off the 22-250 and all her mother's fine china shatters.

Incidentally, Dude! Photoshop out the toes! I hate that being the only thing I know about you!
 
to me, a coyote rifle should be easily portable, so weight is indeed an issue. I wouldnt want one that was more than 9 lbs all up
 
I recommend getting an LVSF (like REMBO's) in .223 if you don't reload or a .221 FB if you do reload. I think .22-250 is overkill as most shots when calling coyotes will be sub 100 meters. I don't like hvy bbl rifles for a walking gun which coyote hunting inevitably becomes (I had a 700 VS and I got rid of it as it was too heavy to move from stand to stand with and trying to take a quick shot on a coyote is difficult with a 10-12 lb rifle - depending on your rig). I would recommend a low power scope - (2-7x33 or 3-9x40). I have a 4-14 because my rifle doubles as a gopher gun and it is an excellent compromise for both (.221 can smoke gophers comfortably out to 250-300meters and doesn't heat the barrel up fast. I can get about 3 more shots off compared to a .223 before the bbl needs to cool down). Just my 2 cents.
 
bisonhd said:
Shooting a lot of gophers with a 243 or even a 22-250 is going to be expensive on ammo and barrels. The 243, especially will give you a bit more reach and be more forgiving in the wind.

The 223, as boring as it is, works. Fast twist barrels and heavier bullets have definately improved the reach of that cartridge.
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No offence intended.. but the difference in price for reloading is minimal.

The brass is the same price and the bullets are the same price. The only difference is primers and powder but that comes down to pennies a shot.

Get a Savage heavy barrel in .243 and forget the rest. Use a 57 Vmax for gophers, a 87 Vmax for coyotes, and then if you want, a 105 Game King for deer and antelope.

The 6mm bullet (same as .243) comes in a wide selection of types due to its popularity with long range shooters.

I have never been disappointed.
 
.243 is a little hot to shoot at gophers. Barrel life isn't as good on a .243 compared to a .223. Recoil wouldn't be too pleasant either for a long shooting string and you would have to let the bbl cool down more frequently when shooting at gophers... Don't get me wrong .243 is a great caliber but I wouldn't recommend it for gopher/coyote hunting.
 
for me coyote gun = 22 k-hornet. it also does fine work on skunks. i limit it's use on gophers though as the 22LR get the nod for that as i don't care to spend equal time at the reloading bench as shooting gophers.
 
the 204 is a horrible choice its too light and the wind reaks havoc with them
22calibers shoot little tips fast enough but the wind again
and the heavier tips are pretty slow and drop a bunch out to 500-600 yards(I had a 250 sold it for those reasons)

if you live anywhere south of calgary and west of lethbridge (I do)
you have a few things to consider
1 the wind it blows here like no where else in the world
2 the flat country that will require long shots on yotes
3 the fact that just about all our yotes are running shots
I believe you need for a perfect varmint gun (Im building one on my 25 06 action)
very high BC Berger makes a tip that is the 6mm 90rn match vld and has a bc of .517 (wicked good)
abit of weight to keep the momentum
and a casing to push that bullet to above 3000fps
I think the Ideal cartridge for the purpose of killing coyotes is the .243 catbird
it is capable of pushing a 90 grn tip up to approx 3700fps
fast flat and can buck our southern Ab winds
Daniel
 
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Actually if you do the math, the 204 is flatter and deflected LESS by the wind than a 22-250. Compare the BC of the .20 cal bullets to 22 cal bullets and then look at which one shoots a higher BC bullet faster.

Until you start getting in to the really heavy weight 22's (and fast twist rifles), the two are virtually identical with the slight edge going to the 204
 
Wooly ESS said:
Well, based on all the sage advice given here, I have dropped the 243 from consideration. The key point was that if you are prepared to blow big holes in them with the 243, why not use a REAL deer rifle. I have a 300 WSM that would just fit the bill, using that logic.

I am now vacillating between the 223 and the 22-250 (with the .204 lurking in the background). Now I'm wondering if I should get a walking varminter, or go with a full house, heavy barrel jobbie. What do you think?

Incidentally, I have a Browning 1885 LoWall in 22 Hornet which I think is the perfect "acreage" gun. I can pop gophers at 150 yards from my bedroom window. My wife hates gophers, and she runs ahead of me, spotting for gophers and opening the windows. I suppose that will end the first time I touch off the 22-250 and all her mother's fine china shatters.

Incidentally, Dude! Photoshop out the toes! I hate that being the only thing I know about you!
Click to expand...

I like heavy barrels - alot. Nothing is better than a fullblown setup, a range finder, and a field maggoty with gophers. If if coyotes are your passion - go portable.
 
Ive hunted coyotes for years here in Sask, same country as Lethbridge and on those real windy days you may as well stay at home because half the time coyotes don't even hear the calls. Coyotes around these neck of the woods are most active in mornings and late evenings when wind is light which allows use of .17 and .20 cal bullets.
Ive shot yotes with a .223, 22-250, 220 Swift and .243 and all were pretty hard on the pelts using a 50 gr. Berger and 50 Speer TNT. The fellow who buys up most furs here in Sask swears by the .17 Rem and the .204
both are fast flat and have very little area for wind to catch and cause drift.
Ive never shot a .204 but alot of serious pelt hunters around here use them and are really happy, one tiny hole, no exit makes a happy coyote hunter.

Cheers!!
 
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