Coyotes Wolves and Small game

elimsprint said:
I never said gut shoot them, I just said miss the shoulder bones. There's lots of lung behind the shoulder, just don't hit the shoulder. They are very thin skinned and if you hit one with a large game bullet it will probably not expand very much and will do as minimal damage as possible with that caliber. I have said before and I will say again, I am not a hide hunter, and I would never reccommend a .243 to someone who wanted to be one. I kill coyotes for one reason only and that is to protect my deer and I feel I am doing very well at that.
Kim
Part of my herd coming for a visit:
DSC01563-1.jpg
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{scratches head} Obviously a miscommunication has occured between us: I wasn't fingering anyone with my post; I was under the impression that the topic was dispatching coyotes with minimal pelt damage so that the fur can be used. I do need to clarify that yes although shoulder hits would upset more bone fragments through the pelt, I was suggesting that even strikes in a rib will increase pelt damage significantly.

Fine looking yearlings (?) you have: I know a man who also keeps deer and snares coyotes heavily to protect his livestock. I know fish farmers who similarily shoot fish predators: Antiqueguy; anyone for the purpose of protecting his livelihood can dispose of ANY vermin detrimental to that livelihood - in some cases the pelt cannot be sold by the harvester because although he may kill the fur bearer, he is not obligated by any law or regulation to have game licenses.

That is a nice backdrop: Mountains are something we don't have in Ontario.
 
Obviously elmsprint must be quite careful of the backdrop when using a rifle around there, lol. My first thought was none of those deer could be shot because it would be unsafe!

Sorry elmsprint, it's the hunter in me....
 
Cleftwynd said:
Obviously elmsprint must be quite careful of the backdrop when using a rifle around there, lol. My first thought was none of those deer could be shot because it would be unsafe!

Sorry elmsprint, it's the hunter in me....
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Don't worry, I don't shoot that way for obvious reasons but I do have 2 safe directions from the sundeck:D I took an injured spike mule deer buck on Sunday with my crossbow while kneeling on the hot tub and then just failed to get a shot from the sundeck at a coyote on the gutpile in the evening just before dark. I love it here:cool:
Kim
 
New Camper said:
{scratches head} Obviously a miscommunication has occured between us: I wasn't fingering anyone with my post; I was under the impression that the topic was dispatching coyotes with minimal pelt damage so that the fur can be used. I do need to clarify that yes although shoulder hits would upset more bone fragments through the pelt, I was suggesting that even strikes in a rib will increase pelt damage significantly.

Fine looking yearlings (?) you have: I know a man who also keeps deer and snares coyotes heavily to protect his livestock. I know fish farmers who similarily shoot fish predators: Antiqueguy; anyone for the purpose of protecting his livelihood can dispose of ANY vermin detrimental to that livelihood - in some cases the pelt cannot be sold by the harvester because although he may kill the fur bearer, he is not obligated by any law or regulation to have game licenses.

That is a nice backdrop: Mountains are something we don't have in Ontario.
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The deer are wild, they just come to visit a lot. When I moved here 6 yrs ago there were deer but no young ones. There were a lot of coyotes. I have killed 130+ within walking distance of my house and now I have, as you can see, lots of young ones. The doe on the right has been with us for 4 yrs and brings her new twins to visit every year.
To the OP, sorry about the thread hijack. All I was saying as to your subject was if you want the hides don't go .243, .223, .204 or 22-250 are all way better for your purposes.
Kim
 
Here in Alberta, we can also dispatch without having to save the hides due to their costly predation on calves. Cattlemen are more than endearing to anyone willing to reduce numbers. In short, I really could care less what the regs state in the Province of Ontario - I am dispatching in Alberta, as with Elm dispatching in BC. As I also stated earlier - to save hides, maybe a 223 would be a better choice. For my dispatching, I use my 243 all the way.
 
For straight up predator control, I like my stw with 140 grain boat tails. For keeping the hide, I use my 22 mag with solids and just get closer
 
elimsprint said:
The deer are wild, they just come to visit a lot. When I moved here 6 yrs ago there were deer but no young ones. There were a lot of coyotes. I have killed 130+ within walking distance of my house and now I have, as you can see, lots of young ones. The doe on the right has been with us for 4 yrs and brings her new twins to visit every year.
To the OP, sorry about the thread hijack. All I was saying as to your subject was if you want the hides don't go .243, .223, .204 or 22-250 are all way better for your purposes.
Kim
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Thanks for the tips! I'm looking at the Axis package as mentioned earlier in the thread. I'm not exactly sure which I'll get (.223, 204, or 22-250) - it might be that down the road I would use the same rifle for deer - which of those would work for multi-purpose hunting?

I was looking at a .270 but now (thanks for the pics!!) I realize that's too much gun to save anything. Today at the range there was a guy with a .270 short mag and he told me that he uses it for coyotes. I asked him how big of an exit wound it makes and he said, "That depends on if you can find the other half of the coyote!" hahaha

Thanks for all the responses and discussion!

Also what's the difference between "Win" and "Rem"? Those are both options on the Cabella's site for the Axis package...
 
One_Rook said:
Thanks for the tips! I'm looking at the Axis package as mentioned earlier in the thread. I'm not exactly sure which I'll get (.223, 204, or 22-250) - it might be that down the road I would use the same rifle for deer - which of those would work for multi-purpose hunting?

I was looking at a .270 but now (thanks for the pics!!) I realize that's too much gun to save anything. Today at the range there was a guy with a .270 short mag and he told me that he uses it for coyotes. I asked him how big of an exit wound it makes and he said, "That depends on if you can find the other half of the coyote!" hahaha

Thanks for all the responses and discussion!

Also what's the difference between "Win" and "Rem"? Those are both options on the Cabella's site for the Axis package...
Click to expand...

You probably found those two abbreviations after a cartridge name as they are part of the name: Axis is a Savage rifle, "Win" and "Rem" are abbreviations of Winchester and Remington respectively: For example; 223 Rem was a smart move on Remingtons part to commercialize the 5.56X45mm NATO round. It is probably the most popular cartridge in the 224 caliber bullet line. 22-250 is also a round commercialized by Remington. The 270 Win, has been around for almost a century commercialized by Winchester but made popular by Jack O'Connor a famous writer and outdoorsman. I say "commercialized by" because many of such rounds were originally wildcat developments that could have existed for decades previous to becoming popular.

The 270 win is quite a large caliber for coyotes, but I have shot many deer with it, 150gr bullets, even striking the entrance side shoulder bones, I have seen the top of a deers aorta severed, both lungs and the opposite shoulder bones struck and exit. I've only recovered one of these bullets(which when weighed had only shed 20gr or so and had mushroomed to about 37-42caliber) that somehow deflected up, lodging in the spine, and non of the deer needed vacuuming. The only damaged meat was from bullet contact and the shock wave: Hide damage from these bullets consisted of a tiny 30cal entrance hole to exit hole(or sometimes two depending on bone) of at least that size up to 1-1.5 inches. Don't let exageration discourage you from using a dual purpose caliber like the 270. It's bullet construction that will invariably be the most critical factor in hide preservation - just don't put the bullets through the thickest bones. The only "inside out" turning of animals I've seen is things like woodchucks with 222rem: It's not a magical caliber, it uses the same bullets as 223 or 22-250.

I'm not sure many areas allow use on deer, the three 224 or smaller calibers you listed. I may be wrong, but check that out first. Otherwise, enjoy coyote hunting!
 
One_Rook said:
Thanks for the tips! I'm looking at the Axis package as mentioned earlier in the thread. I'm not exactly sure which I'll get (.223, 204, or 22-250) - it might be that down the road I would use the same rifle for deer - which of those would work for multi-purpose hunting?

I was looking at a .270 but now (thanks for the pics!!) I realize that's too much gun to save anything. Today at the range there was a guy with a .270 short mag and he told me that he uses it for coyotes. I asked him how big of an exit wound it makes and he said, "That depends on if you can find the other half of the coyote!" hahaha

Thanks for all the responses and discussion!

Also what's the difference between "Win" and "Rem"? Those are both options on the Cabella's site for the Axis package...
Click to expand...

If you went the .270Win route you would have to keep your shots confined to the rib area and hope for the best if you want to keep the hides. All of the .22 centrefires are marginal on deer IMHO but will let you save way more hides. That said people use them every year to take deer, just not me. Maybe you should look at the new TC Dimension Rifles, ht tp://dimensionrifle.tcarms.com/wp-content/uploads/TCR_11102B_SPECS-for-Web.pdf Buy it in 22-250 now and get a .308 barrel for it for big game when you want to do that. All you would need is a new barrel if you went .308 as the 22-250 and the .308 use the same bolt.
Kim
 
I've had really good success with the varmint grenade bullets in my dad's .22-250. I think it's a 1 in 14" twist. The 50 gr was a bit unpredictable in my gun as the twist wasn't fast enough to stabilize it, but the 36 gr works great. I never had a coyote I hit with either one of those bullets get back up, and it didn't leave an exit wound except on pups.... I don't know of anyone that sells them though... They seem to have to be reloaded.
I have a CZ varmint with a 1 in 9" twist now, and as soon as my dies are here, I intend to reload some 50 gr varmint grenades into the casings, and see what accuracy I get... Heard good things about the Barnes TSX bullets and weight and size retention as well.I hear that they only go to double the size of the unfired slug, and don't tend to blow holes.
 
pilot2001 said:
Rrrroger this quote !
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Yeah, a 22 LR will work really close up. A friend in the past borrowed one of my rimfire rifles and some stingers to discourage a chicken eating fox. He actually got him one rainy Saturday morning sneaking up behind the corral to get to the chicken coop. Three shots at 35 yards and it was game over. He did not ask to use it again though.
 
"...Just got my hunting license..." Congratulations. Now you need to shoot your .22 with as many brands of ammo as you can to find the ammo your rifle shoots best. No two rifle will shoot the same ammo the same way. .22's are just like that. Then practice shooting, off hand, well it's a 9" pie plate at 100 until you can hit it every time with a cf cartridge. A smaller target is required for a .22.
Said .22 will kill a coyote or fox, but you'd be better off buying a .223.
"...a 243 may not be your answer..." Depends on the bullet. Your 70 grainers are likely varmint bullets. Made to rapidly expand upon impact. The 90 grain fmj's I use make a puncture wound with no exit hole. A commercial hunting bullet is designed for hide hunting. Isn't the same as a military ball bullet.
 
I believe in Southern Ontario, minimum calibre for deer is .243, so if you want a multi-purpose rifle that can do both coyotes and deer, you're looking for something between .243 and .275.
 
gwilder said:
I believe in Southern Ontario, minimum calibre for deer is .243, so if you want a multi-purpose rifle that can do both coyotes and deer, you're looking for something between .243 and .275.
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Wrong! There is no minimum calibre for deer or moose. See page 22 in the 2012 reg's, then go back to page 21 for firearm definition.

Better also check the regulations concerning the taking of coyotes or wolves. There are some special regulations that apply in certain WMU's.

Jim
 
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