Crimp Problem - Advice requested

E

edppcli

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Hi All
Just for some background
I am on my second 1000 rounds of reloading 9mm on a Lee single stage press. So not a total noob.
My last trip to the range some respected shooters commented that my 9mm rounds were only very lightly crimped and I would be better served with a heavier crimp (9mm shot in a Glock 17).
Today I was adjusting my crimp in small increments and not seeing a big change (looking for a noticeable crimp ring). Frustration set in and I gave a full turn to the adjustment knob. On trying to remove the round to see how this "much" crimp looked, I proceeded to tear off a portion of the rim.
I now have a loaded 9mm projectile stuck in the die. Disassembly and gentle persuasion are not working. I am now soaking the stuck round in wd-40 to inactivated the round.
How long till inactivation?
Can I then safely tap out the the round from the bullet end?
Any other advice would be appreciated.
Cheers
Ed
 
Is this the Lee FCD? I have it, and I'm having trouble picturing your problem. A pic might help maybe...

As to the advice you received, unless you were having failure to fully chamber problems due to a confirmed case mouth sizing issue, I'd reconsider the amount of respect I'd bestow upon these shooters as far as reloading is concerned. Are you measuring your crimp with a micrometer or at least calipers? And what the heck is a crimp ring on a 9mm?
 
9mm headspaces on the case mouth--should only use a light crimp or taper crimp. Case should be resized small enough that there is sufficient tension on the bullet to keep it from setting back in the case.

no sugestions for removing the cartrige from the die.

Good luck.
 
As 44bore said, 9mm especially in a G17 requires very little crimp, if any.

The crimping in this instance is only to get rid of the belling that you put in the case before feeding, not to hold the bullet in place as is a concern when loading for revolvers, or tube fed magazines. The bullet is held in place by neck tension from the case.

Whoever told you this did you no favours.

I would completely reverse what you have been doing, and put just enough crimp to allow the bullets to drop freely into the chamber of your guns barrel, after removing it from the slide, to test.

Edit: To explain further if you are shooting heavy loads in a revolver, or you have a lever rifle with a tube fed mag, a heavy "roll" crimp is put on the case, usually rolled into a cannelure, in order to hold the bullet in place, and make sure it doesn't move, which can lead to obvious problems.

If you are using a 4 die set with a separate crimp die most likely it is a taper crimp, and will not produce a noticeable crimp, like a roll crimp which is obvious as the edge of the case mouth is rolled inwards on the bullet. A taper crimp simply squeezes the case, and bullet and is more for uniforming cases, and reliability.

As mentioned by 44bore the heavy roll crimp is common on rimmed cases because the case headspaces on the rim of the cartridge not the case mouth.

Here is a pic for ya:
taperroll1.jpg
 
For my .40 I set the crimp to just make a shiny ring around the mouth and I know the brass is tight to the bullet. If you had no problems with the rounds feeding, you were probably okay to begin with. The only time I had problems due to crimp was with a flared mouth to accept a bullet with a really flat base. I hadn't adjusted until the brass closed around the bullet and my gun was a jam-o-matic that day. If you crimp your round and take a flashlight you can see if the brass is up against the bullet, if it isn't, turn just a LITTLE more and look again.

Good luck.
 
Hi All
Still would like some hints on removing stuck case and also how long to inactivate primer.
A bit more info I guess would help.
Bullets are plated (copper) AIM 124grRN. The load is 4.1gr of W231, WSP and assorted brass (all inspected before reloading). Functioning is 100% in my G17. Chrono was about 100fps less than it states in the Speer manual for this load. A tighter crimp will allow for higher pressure and a slight gain in velocity.
The AIM bullets have no cannelure or crimp groove btw.
Cheers
Ed
 
Regarding your problem with the cartridge in the die.
Right now it is a loaded round. If it is stuck so badly as to tear off a portion of the rim, it sounds like it is really stuck. Either that or the shell holder is a little oversized & not getting a really good grip on the case.

I don't know what to suggest other than I would not rely on WD40 to kill the primer. It might but how can you be sure ??
 
Taper crimping plated bullets is a delicate process.

Over crimping will result in essentially resizing the bullet to a smaller diameter and possibly lead to accuracy issues, or damaging the plating. If this happens you will have even less bullet retention and the opposite affect of what you want.

You really need to figure out what kind of crimp you are applying. A taper crimp will not do what you are thinking, and a roll crimp isn't a good idea for 9mm.
 
To remove the stuck round, take the the die apart (are you using a seperate crimp die or an all-in-one?) by unscrewing the stem, and then push the live round out from the top, lube the walls and drive the whole round out with a rod and hammer if necessary - you'll end up with a bullet set way back in the case, but that's life. Incidently as far as crimp goes, the Lee Factory Crimp die is widely available and very highly recomended.
 
enefgee said:
To remove the stuck round, take the the die apart (are you using a seperate crimp die or an all-in-one?) by unscrewing the stem, and then push the live round out from the top, lube the walls and drive the whole round out with a rod and hammer if necessary - you'll end up with a bullet set way back in the case, but that's life. Incidently as far as crimp goes, the Lee Factory Crimp die is widely available and very highly recomended.
Click to expand...

would be my advice as well.

if your really worried about it going off, i would get a small drill bit, (1/32" (i think that's the smallest or smallest one in a kit) then drill at least 2 holes into the rim of the case, or rather where the head stamp is. should get you into the case safely away from the primer.

dump in your oil or what have you and and it should deactivate the powder, primer. if you have a ink refill kit with a needle, that would work ever better.
 
You can also take another try at it with the shellholder.

Just raise the ram up and push the shellholder over the broken part of the rim and while its up there, rotate it around so it will pull on the portion of the rim that remains.

Maintain pressure with your finger to keep the shellholder pushed in toward the rim as you slowly apply pressure on the lever to remove the cartridge from the die.

It might work, it might just tear off the remaining piece of rim. Either way you're no further behind.
 
TwoTone said:
You can also take another try at it with the shellholder.

Just raise the ram up and push the shellholder over the broken part of the rim and while its up there, rotate it around so it will pull on the portion of the rim that remains.

Maintain pressure with your finger to keep the shellholder pushed in toward the rim as you slowly apply pressure on the lever to remove the cartridge from the die.

It might work, it might just tear off the remaining piece of rim. Either way you're no further behind.
Click to expand...

Before trying that, might I suggest that you put both die and stuck shell into your deep freeze for a couple of hours? It should reduce the diameter of both casing and die. Can't hurt; might help.
 
edppcli said:
A tighter crimp will allow for higher pressure and a slight gain in velocity.
Ed
Click to expand...

Please note that Aim (or any other brand) plated bullets do not require much in the way of crimp. If you are seeing any deformation on the bullet at all you have too much crimp. Only that which is required to straighten out the case bell after seating is what you should be applying. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise. If your cases are properly sized, case drag will ensure that you don't have any bullet set-back during the feeding cycle or creep during the recoil cycle. Further, excessive crimp will destroy accuracy.

The same goes for jacketed bullets too. They do not require massive amounts of crimp.

If anyone has ANY questions about loading Aim (or any other plated bullets), please don't hesitate to contact me. I'm the guy that helped develop their bullet profiles, so I will make myself available.

There are some good ideas for removing the stuck round here. I think the freezing approach should be tried first as it might be the safest. An approach to actually pushing the round out might be to set everything up in a vise and use something as a ram to slowly press it out. This would avoid the possibility of any primer impact.

Best of luck
 
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