Crimping 44 Mag

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dodgecrew

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I will be reloading 44 Mag with Campro 240gn bullets to be shot from a Marlin 44mag lever action rifle and am seeking input on crimping. Was looking at purchasing a Lee factory crimping die or is this a waste of money as I could just use my Lee bullet seating die to roll crimp. 44mag from what I read in my reloading books requires a heavy crimp like the factory loaded ammo that I have. Using Winchester large pistol primers, and powders that I already have IMR4227, Accurate #9, IMR SR4759 and HS7. Comments?
 
If you are going to be using any slow burn powders for high pressure like H110 or Lil Gun... then yes... a heavy factory crimp is needed to avoid the risk of any setback if your load has lots of recoil. A roll crimp is ok for fast burning light loads if they have little recoil
 
I've loaded 44mag to every performance level in the book and only ever used the crimp in the regular seating die. No problem so far.
Just be careful not to bulge the case trying to get too much crimp. Having a bullet move and lock up your revolver would be a pain but I've never experienced it.
 
They cost 20$. for that amount, I would buy it if I were you.

The Lee FCD for straightwall cartridges are easy to use and kind of always ensure you crimp the right amount. They are especially handy with mixed brass that you don't want to trim to the same length (I never trim any pistol cases). Spending 20$ to save time trimming while ensuring all my ammos have sufficient crimp is a bargain imho.
 
With the extra mass of a rifle one could probably get away with less crimp. In a revolver with max loads I'm using 5/8 of a turn from contact in a Lee crimp die. With lighter loads of 4227, as little as 3/8 used to be enough to prevent bullet walk. For this cartridge, I'd err on the side of caution as use more rather than less. The cannelure is more than deep enough to take a heavy crimp without damaging the bullet.
 
I run 22.5 gr of IMR 4227 under a Campro 240gr TMJ with Fed LP primer and use the 3 piece Hornady die set and just crimp with the seater die at the cannelure. No need for a heavy crimp or you'll damage the copper jacket

I shoot the 44 mag out of my Henry lever action at 1358 fps and never had problems with my reloads.

I wouldn't waste money on a separate crimping die for your application.
 
I would NOT use the lee factory crimp die for ammunition shot from a Marlin .44. If I understand the Lee advertisements correctly the Lee die sizes the entire case and the bullet to minimum dimensions while applying the crimp. Most Marlin .44 mag rifles have a bore diameter of .431 or so. Most lead bullets shoot best at least bore diameter, or up to 0.002" larger than bore diameter. Plated Campro bullets too. You would be very likely to be shooting a Lee crimped bullet of .429" or smaller diameter out of a bore .431-.432" Not a recipe for success. Expect horrible groups, and frustration. Use your regular die to crimp .44 magnum ammo for your Marlin rifle.
 
Longwalker, the Lee FCD doesn't resize your bullets. It can be adjusted to apply a heavy crimp at the case mouth. At worst you'd have a ring indent around the bullet where it crimps. The remainder of the bullet would still be the same diameter it was before loading.

That being said you are correct about Marlin's having larger bores and not liking smaller bullets. Are Campro .429" or .430"? I don't know. I tried Berry's .429" plated (.004") in my Marlin and they would tumble above .44 special velocities. One person I talked to said Campro works great in his Marlin at magnum velocities and another person I talked to said they didn't work for him. Possibly barrel tolerance differences but who knows.

I gave up on plain cast or plated in my Marlin. I run full jacketed or powder coated with gas checks only and have no more issues with tumbling bullets or poor accuracy.
 
I use FCD when loading 44 magnum and the only place the carbide ring touches the case is if I’m loading lead and using PTX expander then it touches the case mouth bell but when using an expander die it never touches the case. When loading 240 grain Campro over 23 grains of 296 I put a full turn after turning the adjuster by hand until I can’t turn anymore. They are not as accurate as a XTP but pretty close out of a SBH.
The Lee FCD is either loved or hated and has caused many threads on many sites over the years.

Opps should have had my glasses on as I didn’t see rifle.
 
Well that's odd. What I read from Lee's website description of their pistol Carbide Factory Crimp Die " the Carbide Factory Crimp die post-sizes the cartridge while it is crimped so every round will positively chamber freely with factory like dependability. "

Looks to me like Lee FC die Does indeed size the case, which means it is also squeezing the bullet at least somewhat. How could it not be? I don't understand.
 
Longwalker said:
Well that's odd. What I read from Lee's website description of their pistol Carbide Factory Crimp Die " the Carbide Factory Crimp die post-sizes the cartridge while it is crimped so every round will positively chamber freely with factory like dependability. "

Looks to me like Lee FC die Does indeed size the case, which means it is also squeezing the bullet at least somewhat. How could it not be? I don't understand.
Click to expand...

The Lee FCD doesn't size the case. It crimps. That's why it's called a Crimp die. You could more or less say that is sizes the mouth of the case but that's stretching the definition of "sizing".

I don't think you've ever used a FCD. If you had, it would be obvious to you that the FCD doesn't size the case.
 
Longwalker said:
Well that's odd. What I read from Lee's website description of their pistol Carbide Factory Crimp Die " the Carbide Factory Crimp die post-sizes the cartridge while it is crimped so every round will positively chamber freely with factory like dependability. "

Looks to me like Lee FC die Does indeed size the case, which means it is also squeezing the bullet at least somewhat. How could it not be? I don't understand.
Click to expand...

The only time a FCD die carbide ring did size a case was on 357 that I tried loading some cast powder coated bullets that were .360 to .362 diameter. The carbide ring most certainly sized the case and bullet down. Once I put those bullets through a .358 bullet sizer die the FCD carbide ring didn’t touch the case other than the mouth that was belled.
Or when I was trying to put a heavy crimp on a 357 when seating and crimping together with a Hornady die I bulged the case. Ran it through the FCD and it straightened out.
 
Like someone else mentioned the carbide ring will only touch the case at the flare or if there is some other anomaly,it's just there for extra insurance. I have one for every pistol cartridge I shoot including .44 and use them with plated,cast and jacketed bullets and never have a problem.
 
I have shot countless full power loads with various powders (2400, H110, 296) and various bullet weights up to 300gr in a revolver, crimped using only the standard roll crimp / bullet seating die. NEVER had a problem.
 
I've shot oversized bullets up to .003" larger than normal and my crimp die has never noticeably touched the brass. I have had hugely overdone flares touch when going in. If it does any sizing it's pretty generous.
 
The Lee factory crimp die with the carbide ring in its base is a "cheat" for people who do not trim their pistol brass.

The longer cases when crimped will bulge below the crimp and possibly cause chambering problems.

The Lee factory crimp die with the carbide ring is designed to size any bulge caused by crimping.

This same die is used for their "bulge buster" kits to size the base of the case, and the carbide ring is "larger" in diameter than the carbide sizing die.

It is recommended to "NOT" use this die with over sized cast bullets because the carbide ring will size these bullets smaller in diameter.

Bottom line, the Lee factory crimp die with the carbide ring works fine with standard diameter jacketed bullets in pistols.

NOTE, if you want uniform crimps then trim your cases to the same length for uniform start pressure and accuracy. And again the FDC was designed as a cheat for people who do not trim their cases.

Two things you rarely or never see pistol shooters do.
1. Trim their cases.
2. Anneal their cases. (And Lee make under sized carbide dies for work hardened pistol brass that springs back more after sizing)
 
LUTNIT said:
I've shot oversized bullets up to .003" larger than normal and my crimp die has never noticeably touched the brass. I have had hugely overdone flares touch when going in. If it does any sizing it's pretty generous.
Click to expand...

Dies have a plus and minus manufacturing tolerance, meaning a die on the minus side and thicker brass will cause the bullet to be sized smaller. And a Die on the plus side and thinner brass will not size the bullet.

Simple test, measure the case diameter around the bullet before and after using the Lee FCD. ;)

Lee Factory Crimp die for Handgun Cartridges and Cast Bullets
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/sho...p-die-for-Handgun-Cartridges-and-Cast-Bullets

Lee Factory Crimp Die & oversized bullets advice
http://www.marlinowners.com/forum/reloading/48308-lee-factory-crimp-die-oversized-bullets-advice.html
 
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