Crimping

You do not understand. You do not need a NEW DIE. Any regular bullet seating die can crimp as well as seat the bullet! Simply by lowering the die a bit more towards the shellholder, a small shoulder inside the die will fold the case over the crimping groove in the bullet. It is and easy operation to do, the only trick is that cases must be of consistent length before crimping with the regular bullet seating die. If cases are not the same length, crimp will vary. Some get around that by seating the bullet first without crimp, then backing out the seating stem and lowering the die, crimping by feel as a separate operation. But it is better just to trim and do it all in one operation. You do not need a Lee Factory Crimp die. I use them and like them, but they only reduce the need for checking case length. And they can crimp the mouth of the case onto a bullet without a cannelure ( crimping groove) or on a bullet with the cannelure in the wrong position. That's all. Nothing magical about a factory crimp die.
 
Rctic said:
Thank you to everyone that replied! Okay I will need to get a new die.
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You can shoot these 2 at a time. One in the mag and one in the chamber. The worst that can happen is that the bullet can move forward.

Are you using 45/70 dies to load your ammo? The seater dies is probably also a crimper die.

Back out the seater stem and run a loaded case into the seater die. Turn the die body down until you feel it hit the case mouth. Drop the ram and turn the die in a 1/8th turn more and lock it in place. Now run a few loaded rounds through and see if you can feel the crimping action. Too much will bulge the case mouth.

Once you have it crimping well, turn the seater stem back down so it touches the bullet. Now your die is set to seat and crimp in one action, next time.
 
Longwalker said:
You do not understand. You do not need a NEW DIE. Any regular bullet seating die can crimp as well as seat the bullet! Simply by lowering the die a bit more towards the shellholder, a small shoulder inside the die will fold the case over the crimping groove in the bullet. It is and easy operation to do, the only trick is that cases must be of consistent length before crimping with the regular bullet seating die. If cases are not the same length, crimp will vary. Some get around that by seating the bullet first without crimp, then backing out the seating stem and lowering the die, crimping by feel as a separate operation. But it is better just to trim and do it all in one operation. You do not need a Lee Factory Crimp die. I use them and like them, but they only reduce the need for checking case length. And they can crimp the mouth of the case onto a bullet without a cannelure ( crimping groove) or on a bullet with the cannelure in the wrong position. That's all. Nothing magical about a factory crimp die.
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Thanks for clearing that up. I will try this method first. Appreciate the response.
 
Ganderite said:
You can shoot these 2 at a time. One in the mag and one in the chamber. The worst that can happen is that the bullet can move forward.

Are you using 45/70 dies to load your ammo? The seater dies is probably also a crimper die.

Back out the seater stem and run a loaded case into the seater die. Turn the die body down until you feel it hit the case mouth. Drop the ram and turn the die in a 1/8th turn more and lock it in place. Now run a few loaded rounds through and see if you can feel the crimping action. Too much will bulge the case mouth.

Once you have it crimping well, turn the seater stem back down so it touches the bullet. Now your die is set to seat and crimp in one action, next time.
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Yes I am using Lee pacesetter dies. Thanks I will give it a shot.
 
jethunter said:
I use factory crimp too, but not with cast bullets. I go to quite a bit of effort to make and size the bullets oversize, like you should do with cast. So using the factory crimp to squish them back to the factory ammo size is not helping anything.
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I've seen "poorly" crimped cast lead revolver ammunition from a licensed reloader that doesn't fit in a cylinder, gas checked cast lead commercial rifle projectiles that were poorly sized, during the manufacturing process, that doesn't feed properly in rifle cartridges during my 31 years of high volume reloading of cast lead bullets for at least 5 different shooting disciplines. While the crimping process has not helped you, it sure has contributed to the flawless functioning of my pistols, revolvers, lever action, bolt & semi automatic rifles since 1986. To each his own.
 
I reload 4570 and shoot it out of a 2 different tube fed rifles (winchester 1886 & henry guide). I put a heavy crimp on all my 4570 because I have had 4 rounds get crunched in the mag tube. All you need is for it to have it happen once and you will start putting a heavy crimp on them. It took me almost an hour the first time I got one stuck and believe me it sucks. Also, I do not use the crimping feature on seat & crimping dies because it isn't consistent. If you have different lenght brass then one will have a heavy crimp but others won't have a crimp at all. I've messed around with those seating & crimping dies and found they aren't worth it for 4570 because of the wide variety of bullets you use. After damaging enough brass I said screw it.
 
I cast for 4570 as well. You need to put a little less of a crimp on them if you are reloading lead. 4570 barrel diameters are usually .457 however lead bullets are usually sized to .458-.459.
 
jethunter said:
I use factory crimp too, but not with cast bullets. I go to quite a bit of effort to make and size the bullets oversize, like you should do with cast. So using the factory crimp to squish them back to the factory ammo size is not helping anything.
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Rifle Factory Crimp dies (such as for .45-70) do not have a carbide insert and thus will not size over-sized bullets.
 
Bassmaster said:
Isn't this learnin' stuff fun!??
I love the threads were everyone gets along, passes on the knowledge and isn't being a d!c& about it
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Learning is great and the folks on this forum are amazing but it is still a bit scary when one wrong move you could end up killing yourself. That's why it is nice to have the support of a community such as this with it's wealth of knowledge.
 
Rctic said:
Learning is great and the folks on this forum are amazing but it is still a bit scary when one wrong move you could end up killing yourself. That's why it is nice to have the support of a community such as this with it's wealth of knowledge.
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Don't worry, if someone posts something sketchy they get beat up pretty bad here.
Play safe
 
Weremey59 said:
I reload 4570 and shoot it out of a 2 different tube fed rifles (winchester 1886 & henry guide). I put a heavy crimp on all my 4570 because I have had 4 rounds get crunched in the mag tube. All you need is for it to have it happen once and you will start putting a heavy crimp on them. It took me almost an hour the first time I got one stuck and believe me it sucks. Also, I do not use the crimping feature on seat & crimping dies because it isn't consistent. If you have different lenght brass then one will have a heavy crimp but others won't have a crimp at all. I've messed around with those seating & crimping dies and found they aren't worth it for 4570 because of the wide variety of bullets you use. After damaging enough brass I said screw it.
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Wow I disagree with that. I have used the roll crimp/seating die exclusively to load 45-70 for up to a dozen different rifles (I only have 4 now). The statement that the seating/roll crimp die being "not consistent" is totally wrong. If you are getting varying roll crimps then your brass isn't uniform...not any fault of the dies.

As for 'ruining brass", again I don't think its the dies fault as I have had 45-70 since the mid 80's and still use every piece of brass I originally bought for that gun. I run about 300 brass thru my rotation, some of the originals have been loaded 40 or 50 times I suspect and cannot remember discarding even one with a split case mouth and I use a very heavy roll crimp on both jacketed and lead cast.
 
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