Cross over bullet?

Bear_Blade said:
I had issues with gamekings "blowing up" between 100 and 200 yards. Massive hydrostatic shock, lots of internal mush, the deer dropped like a sack of bricks, but was more meat damage then I would like to see. been useing balistic silvertips in my hunting rifle, I like those. Anxious to work up some new loads with the Bergers and Matrix.
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I had some of the same results with the Gamekings. Not much better success with the Nosler Ballistic tips either. I have not tried the molyed version which is what the Ballistic Silvertip is IIRC
 
I hear you on if it works it works. That's why I stuck with the amax as well. The smk & amax. Good rep for a reason.

I wonder why my gameking's never blew up like that. Luck I guess. Regardless I'll never be a full fan of any led tip.

I actually hope the bergers frag like the amax when hunting deer. Being in the south this year its only 1 deer and not much time to get it. If I half to shoot threw a shoulder I don't want the bullet to pass threw the other shoulder as well. Ruins the meat.
 
camerl2009 said:
no a ethical hunter would keep his shots under 200 yards so thay have the best chance of killing the game and not wounding it

if you want to shoot at 1000 yards do it on steel target shaped like game animals
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You haven't a clue! Learn how to shoot. My 300wsm shoots 3" groups at 500m. When deer get hit with a 208 Amax at that range they go down like they were hit with a tow truck. Get some experience with what you are talking about before you comment. Your reference to ethics is based on your poor and limited shooting skills not on the real world of skilled shooters. Oh and you should find a new forum I dont think you saw the heading on this one.

:HR:
 
Just some FYI with VLD's that I experienced last weekend.

Our 300 and 400 yard shots on water filled jugs were just penciling right through.Didn't even move the jugs, thought we were missing all the time.:rolleyes:Small or large jugs, same result.

Not sure what they would do on a game animal, or at distance.

Just figured I'd throw that in, may be pertinent , maybe not.
 
Kelly Timoffee said:
Just some FYI with VLD's that I experienced last weekend.

Our 300 and 400 yard shots on water filled jugs were just penciling right through.Didn't even move the jugs, thought we were missing all the time.:rolleyes:Small or large jugs, same result.

Not sure what they would do on a game animal, or at distance.

Just figured I'd throw that in, may be pertinent , maybe not.
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Animals share absolutely NOTHING with water jugs when it comes to how a bullet will perform. Skin is FAR more elastic than a plastic jug and dense hair, fat and flesh will change the bullets rotational force in a very significant manner. Once the skin has stretched and then broken open allowing the bullet to come in contact with bone or flesh things REALLY start to happen. The rotational forces and the bullets path can be greatly altered causing tremendous damage and trauma.

With lighter jacketed fairly fragile bullets like Amaxs, Bergers and SMKs a broadside through the ribs shot is your best bet. These bullets really come apart like a grenade once they get inside the chest cavity, yet do little damage other than to the vital organs. With the bullet fragmenting, and the secondary projectiles from the bullet busting up ribs, heart and lungs are typically anilhilated making the salvage of the heart and commonly the liver near impossible to eat.
A poor shot like on a hauch will cause tremendous meat damage and loss.
 
Kelly Timoffee said:
Just some FYI with VLD's that I experienced last weekend.

Our 300 and 400 yard shots on water filled jugs were just penciling right through.Didn't even move the jugs, thought we were missing all the time.:rolleyes:Small or large jugs, same result.

Not sure what they would do on a game animal, or at distance.

Just figured I'd throw that in, may be pertinent , maybe not.
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I didn't read back to see if you mentioned it but what VLD's did you use and what chambering was pushing them?

Out at 800 I found that my 22-250 with the 75gr vld would only pencil through a water filled tide jug, but both my 300rum (190 hunting vld) or 338 edge (hybrid) look like a bomb went off.

I have shot a few different bullets into tightly stacked dry newspaper inside a rubbermaid bin, at various distances out to 1000 yards. I know that paper has nothing in common with a animal, but it is consistent and allows you to judge bullets against each other. Under 300 yards the berger vld's basically disintegrate like a V-max or varmint grenade. But out at 1000 the 190gr berger vld hunting and the 300 hybrid both expand quite well, and seem to perform much like a gameking at 200-300 from a 30-06.

I wouldn't hesitate to use the 300 hybrid on game, at any range, at the velocity that I can push them from my edge ai. Sure they fragment, but at 100 yards the lead core will plow through 18" of stacked newspaper and make a 2" diameter hole for the first 8 inches. For reference a 165tsx from a 300 win mag will go through about 11" and make a hole about 1.25" diameter. In sept I will tell you how they work on elk :D
 
They were the target VLD's out of a 7-08.168Gr.

Probably didn't have the velocity to cause a major disruption.Although I was finding bullet jackets in the sand , the lead was completely separated.

With my SCII's I get much better reaction at much further distances, and up close.I think if I was going to take game at longer ranges I'd probably still stick to the SCII's , The thin jacketed bullets don't seem so explosive out of this particular rifle.

I used to use SST's for my hunting round but found them too frangible up to 350 yards, maybe that would be something to look at for longer ranges??





LongBomber said:
I didn't read back to see if you mentioned it but what VLD's did you use and what chambering was pushing them?

Out at 800 I found that my 22-250 with the 75gr vld would only pencil through a water filled tide jug, but both my 300rum (190 hunting vld) or 338 edge (hybrid) look like a bomb went off.

I have shot a few different bullets into tightly stacked dry newspaper inside a rubbermaid bin, at various distances out to 1000 yards. I know that paper has nothing in common with a animal, but it is consistent and allows you to judge bullets against each other. Under 300 yards the berger vld's basically disintegrate like a V-max or varmint grenade. But out at 1000 the 190gr berger vld hunting and the 300 hybrid both expand quite well, and seem to perform much like a gameking at 200-300 from a 30-06.

I wouldn't hesitate to use the 300 hybrid on game, at any range, at the velocity that I can push them from my edge ai. Sure they fragment, but at 100 yards the lead core will plow through 18" of stacked newspaper and make a 2" diameter hole for the first 8 inches. For reference a 165tsx from a 300 win mag will go through about 11" and make a hole about 1.25" diameter. In sept I will tell you how they work on elk :D
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I generally use 165 Hornady SST's as my 300 win mag general purpose load for 4-500 yds and under, they have given me good terminal performance and reliable 1/2 moa for paper accuracy. If they are a long way out I have some 190 gr SMK's I've worked up that do the job and I know my come up for those to 1200. I wouldn't shoot a deer at that range, a lasered 720yds was the farthest animal I took. A 3x4 muley who sat down after I shot and was stone dead in the time it took to hand bomb another 190 (too long for my mag).


I don't have any experience with 30 cal sierra game kings, but I do get reliable results with 140's in my 6.5x55
 
At first I was sceptical about bergers hunting VLD's. I used them for long range in my 06 for quite a while before I used them for hunting. I was always a deep penetration/bullet retention kind of guy and just didn't trust a bullet of this style. Since then I have got 1 goat, 2 moose and one bear with berger hunting VLD's. The penatration is acceptable and the wound channel is devistating. Both my shooting buddy and I have had good success with them for the last 3 years.
Their level of percision is also the the best I've seen. I batch my bullets by weight and bearing surface length. The VLd's are almost not worth doing.
 
Whoo hooo! 200, 210gr Matrix VLD's sitting on the reloading bench. Now a question for you guys. I have used Varget with 165gr bullets with great results in my 1 in 12 twist barrel. With these 210 gr VLD's, I have been doing some reading up, and would like to try RL 17. I have seen guys useing up to 51 gr powder in a .308 and getting up to 2650-2700 fps. What have you guys found for powder/case/primer combos pushing 210 gr VLD's or even 208 gr A-Max?
I have new Laupa brass. Rifle has a 28" barrel, 1 in 10.

Thanks!
Any direction appreciated.
 
Bear_Blade said:
Whoo hooo! 200, 210gr Matrix VLD's sitting on the reloading bench. Now a question for you guys. I have used Varget with 165gr bullets with great results in my 1 in 12 twist barrel. With these 210 gr VLD's, I have been doing some reading up, and would like to try RL 17. I have seen guys useing up to 51 gr powder in a .308 and getting up to 2650-2700 fps. What have you guys found for powder/case/primer combos pushing 210 gr VLD's or even 208 gr A-Max?
I have new Laupa brass. Rifle has a 28" barrel, 1 in 10.

Thanks!
Any direction appreciated.
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Do NOT use Varget with the heavy bullets in a 308, the pressure spike is nasty.
Can not say anything about RL 17 as I have not tried it. BLC2 will work but I have found that Vit N550 is THEE answer for loading 308 with 190 to 210 grain bullets.
I use Lapua brass BR2 primers, N500 and 190 or 208 gr bullets.
Accuracy and knock down power on steel is excellent. I do not hunt with a 308 so don't know how the bullets will work at lower velocities.
 
Thought I would add this, some of you may be interested...

From a PM over in the "Hide"

"I'm still loading RL17 and the 208gr AMax.

I load it for two different 308s, both are Remington varmint barrels with factory chamber and throat.

I moly coat my bullets.

One rifle takes 50gr and makes 2620 fps from a 20.5" bbl.

The other takes 49gr, and makes 2675 fps from a 26" bbl.

Your 28" 1/10 twist barrel should work very well.

I ran out of room for powder before hitting pressure signs. 50gr is compressed even at OAL of 3.00" Moly is a factor too.

Some others have reported pressure signs, without moly, at 49gr or so.

My brass has held up fine. I'm using winchester brass, and only resize the neck, with a Lee Collet Die."
 
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