Crusader Arms Templar quality control issues and response

J

JayCorbett

CGN Regular
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Just received my gun from FOC yesterday. Pretty bad quality control on this weapon so far. Huge scratches running the entire length of the barrel under the handguard. Will try to contact both FOC and Crusader arms on Monday as the gun didn't even ship with an owners manual or warranty information. Hoping Crusader Arms appreciates the lifetime warranty on manufacturing defects even though I bought it through firearms outlet of Canada. CEO was talking a big game at taccom but his product does not reflect that. Picture here > https://imgur.com/a/fmnEtCi
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edit: Overall finish is decent but when you start getting really close you notice the little things. Like are those metal shavings being sheered off near the charging handle? Tried calling FOC this morning and no one answered the phone and no e-mail back from crusader.


UPDATE: Got into contact with the CEO of Crusdar Arms (Steven Goulet) On October 1st and was informed to send an e-mail to the service department. Just waiting on the shipping slip now. Thought I'd let you guys know everything seems to be going well so far. I'll keep updating.

UPDATE: Received my shipping slip from crusader. Sent the gun in and realized that they advertise the rifle with magpul grips and ship it with an A2 pistol grip, and do not disclose anywhere on the advertisement it will ship with an A2. Also shipped with a different ACR style stock then advertised. They advertise one that folds over the ejection port, and shipped me one that folds inside towards the bolt catch, doesn't lock and just bumps up against your chest/stomach. Brought this up to them. They need to fix this and ship the rifle I see on the website. So my experience so far is receiving a rifle with a bunch of damage from the factory that doesn't ship with the furniture that is advertised. Just thought I'd share this update. I'll post the next update when I get it.

Edit: I might be being a little paranoid here, but since I bought the rifle from Firearms Outlet of Canada and not Directly from Crusader Arms, there is a slight chance that they altered the weapon and changed pistol grips before shipping out to customers, which makes more sense then crusader shipping with an A2.


Update: Sent the rifle in for work. Tracking says they received it Friday October 7th. And I haven't gotten a response to any of my e-mails just asking to see what's up for a little peace of mind. Hopefully they've started working on it. Not sure if they only answer service department emails once a week or something. I'll try messaging steve on his personal instagram if I don't get an e-mail back from them next week. Just thought I'd share this part of the warranty process with you guys. I'll let you know what happens.

Update: October 21st - Crusader arms is sending me a completely new rifle. They said they are machining new parts and assembling and shipping out next week. So that's nice. I'll let you guys know how everything turns out.

Update November 2nd - Just received the new rifle and it seems to be in great shape. Seems like better QC then the first. Looking forward to trying it out now. Great service from spectre overall
 
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I get your upset and rightfully so, but it's kinda a low blow to trash them online before they get a chance to make it right. Just my opinion, trash them after if they won't try to work with you on it.
 
GYRO 101 said:
I get your upset and rightfully so, but it's kinda a low blow to trash them online before they get a chance to make it right. Just my opinion, trash them after if they won't try to work with you on it.
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Terrible quality control for a $2100 rifle. And being kind about it will just enforce a lack of accountability on the companies part.
 
GYRO 101 said:
I get your upset and rightfully so, but it's kinda a low blow to trash them online before they get a chance to make it right. Just my opinion, trash them after if they won't try to work with you on it.
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Typical Canadian response.

My expectation when I buy a brand new item is that it isn't fvcked when I take it out of the box. How did it end up getting shipped with that huge scratch on it anyways?

Jay has every right to be pissed off.
 
This is a shame from both perspectives. For the OP, he gets a brand new $2k rifle with an obvious Assembly Ding and us now understandably pissed at Crusader Arms and perhaps turned off the rifle. For Crusader Arms, they now have a very early and embarrasingly public Final QC oversight that nay adversely impact post-launch sales of the Templar. There is no winner going to be declared here as everyone involved loses. Hopefully Crusader Arms will reach out to the OP ASAP with an offer to address the issue on their dime. Worst case it means swapping out a barrel and refinishing the blem before reinstallation for sale.

OP, what I am interested in knowing is how does the rest of the rifle look from a fit and finish perspective? Is everything tight? Anything rattle or feel like it might break or wear excessively with use? How is the fit of the metal parts such as Handguarad to Receiver? What about the finish? Is the anodizing consistent, hard and Black? How is the Nitriting on the Barrel and the Upper Receiver Plate? What about the furniture? Is that F5 brand buttstock as nice as a genuine Magpul ACR stock? These are the real indicators of QC in the production and assembly process, not an "Assembly Scratch". Don't get me wrong - I'd be pissed and you certainly have every right to be. However, that was most likely a one-off sort of event, versus something more systemic that everyone ought to know about in makeing a purchasing decision. Hence my questions - thanks for any insights that you are able to provide!
 
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Bartok5 said:
This is a shame from both perspectives. For the OP, he gets a brand new $2k rifle with an obvious Assembly Ding and us now understandably pissed at Crusader Arms and perhaps turned off the rifle. For Crusader Arms, they now have a very early and embarrasingly public Final QC oversight that nay adversely impact post-launch sales of the Templar. There is no winner going to be declared here as everyone involved loses. Hopefully Crusader Arms will reach out to the OP ASAP with an offer to address the issue on their dime. Worst case it means swapping out a barrel and refinishing the blem before reinstallation for sale.

OP, what I am interested in knowing is how does the rest of the rifle look from a fit and finish perspective? Is everything tight? Anything rattle or feel like it might break or wear excessively with use? How is the fit of the metal parts such as Handguarad to Receiver? What about the finish? Is the anodizing consistent, hard and Black? How is the Nitriting on the Barrel and the Upper Receiver Plate? What about the furniture? Is that F5 brand buttstock as nice as a genuine Magpul ACR stock? These are the real indicators of QC in the production and assembly process, not an "Assembly Scratch". Don't get me wrong - I'd be pissed and you certainly have every right to be. However, that was most likely a one-off sort of event, versus something more systemic that everyone ought to know about in makeing a purchasing decision. Hence my questions - thanks for any insights that you are able to provide!
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I can add more pictures to the thread and probably a video or two. But when I shake the rifle, it does feel like the upper is shaking, and there is a bit of wiggle. But I am also not sure if this is standard for ar-180's. Unless I need to actually torque the screws down. The gun looks great overall. I was just inspecting it and noticed a few manufacturer defects.
 
Bartok5 said:
This is a shame from both perspectives. For the OP, he gets a brand new $2k rifle with an obvious Assembly Ding and us now understandably pissed at Crusader Arms and perhaps turned off the rifle. For Crusader Arms, they now have a very early and embarrasingly public Final QC oversight that nay adversely impact post-launch sales of the Templar. There is no winner going to be declared here as everyone involved loses. Hopefully Crusader Arms will reach out to the OP ASAP with an offer to address the issue on their dime. Worst case it means swapping out a barrel and refinishing the blem before reinstallation for sale.

OP, what I am interested in knowing is how does the rest of the rifle look from a fit and finish perspective? Is everything tight? Anything rattle or feel like it might break or wear excessively with use? How is the fit of the metal parts such as Handguarad to Receiver? What about the finish? Is the anodizing consistent, hard and Black? How is the Nitriting on the Barrel and the Upper Receiver Plate? What about the furniture? Is that F5 brand buttstock as nice as a genuine Magpul ACR stock? These are the real indicators of QC in the production and assembly process, not an "Assembly Scratch". Don't get me wrong - I'd be pissed and you certainly have every right to be. However, that was most likely a one-off sort of event, versus something more systemic that everyone ought to know about in makeing a purchasing decision. Hence my questions - thanks for any insights that you are able to provide!
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It's also very strange that it didn't ship with an owners manual or any type of warranty information or other information.
 
Handled this at taccom, I'd be suprised if nothing breaks before 2k rounds. Pretty much just added more steel to the mcr, bolt carrier alone was a solid pound. Charging handle was pretty flimsy, wouldn't be suprised if it doesn't hold up to repeating hk slaps. At 2k just get a second hand x95 or tavor for 300-500 extra dollars.
 
BigMasterShrek said:
Handled this at taccom, I'd be suprised if nothing breaks before 2k rounds. Pretty much just added more steel to the mcr, bolt carrier alone was a solid pound. Charging handle was pretty flimsy, wouldn't be suprised if it doesn't hold up to repeating hk slaps. At 2k just get a second hand x95 or tavor for 300-500 extra dollars.
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This guy right here is on point.
 
BigMasterShrek said:
Handled this at taccom, I'd be suprised if nothing breaks before 2k rounds. Pretty much just added more steel to the mcr, bolt carrier alone was a solid pound. Charging handle was pretty flimsy, wouldn't be suprised if it doesn't hold up to repeating hk slaps. At 2k just get a second hand x95 or tavor for 300-500 extra dollars.
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Thanks for that. This kind of assessment is more what I was looking for. Not the result that I was hoping for mind you, as I was considering getting one of these to compare and contrast with my SAI R18. I don't think that I will be doing that now. The Charging Handle seemed to me to be an obvious wear-induced failure-point with that "HK slap" leading to accelerated wear. The Templar is really just a tarted up WS-MCR with an integrated Handguard and a nifty Buttstock. On that basis I can give it a pass....
 
Let's give a Canadian manufacturer of a NR semi that looks pretty cool a bit of a chance before we completely trash them.....
 
I'm really looking forward to a good Canadian made ar180, unfortunately this isn't it. Most canadian ar180 "clones" don't function even nearly as good as their 1963 equivalent, which is made of stamped metal and polymer, and also 3k plus on the ee. Does anyone really want another heavy ar180 with proprietary parts? I wonder what kind of ar180 norinco could produce, and for what price. On a positive note, after handling the bcl skunkbear I have quite a positive outlook on canadian made firearms. Hopefully they've got it right this time.
 
Also went to their booth at taccom this year, they had a selection of parts disassembled on a barrel in the center of the booth for inspection and god damn was the bolt carrier group unusually heavy. I don't know if this was just a proof of concept/display model but it's certainly beefier in the carrier part than a WS-MCR (how in the #### that's even possible is still a mystery to me). Stock felt alright but certainly below typical magpul polymer feeling, more brittle. Just in general it's profile is bloated similar in stature to the fish-looking like SKS scorpio type figure, bigger than the MCR and certainly taller in profile. Midlength bolt is a good idea IMO, midlength should probably have been the standard choice that all of the 180 clones chose in an ideal world
 
It's beginning to sound as though the SAI R18 will remain the top dog of the AR-180 designs for the time being. Although I refuse to be a "Beta Tester" for BCL, I must admit that I am intrigued by the idea of their Skunkbear. I believe that I heard it referred to as "an enconomy version of the SIG MCX", with presumably sufficient design differences so as to avoid patent infringement. Can anyone with time handling the BCL product confirm or deny this?

Otherwise, I suppose time will tell in the quest for the ultimate AR-180 derivative. It annoys me that I can't simply use my genuine article. It is SOOO much more dangerous than the current iterations.... (sarcasm off)


 
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Bartok5 said:
It's beginning to sound as though the SAI R18 will remain the top dog of the AR-180 designs for the time being. Although I refuse to be a "Beta Tester" for BCL, I must admit that I am intrigued by the idea of their Skunkbear. I believe that I heard it referred to as "an enconomy version of the SIG MCX", with presumably sufficient design differences so as to avoid patent infringement. Can anyone with time handling the BCL product confirm or deny this?

Otherwise, I suppose time will tell in the quest for the ultimate AR-180 derivative. It annoys me that I can't simply use my genuine article. It is SOOO much more dangerous than the current iterations.... (sarcasm off)


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What stops you from using your original ar180? Unless it's automatic its still non restricted. I agree 100%, I managed to handle it at taccom and must say I was impressed. Controls, weight, and manufacturing quality seemed pretty good. Nonetheless bcl has a less than satisfactory track record, shame the coyote was never introduced fully I was curious how well it was made.
 
Hello my name is Steve Goulet I’m the owner of Crusader Arms I’m sorry to hear about this. This is very disappointing and unacceptable. Please reach out to me through Instagram direct message and I’ll take care of this personally. This is my Instagram spectre_steve
 
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