Crusader Crypto 5.56 Nat Back in Stock – Again!

Grain said:
Highly doubt they are going to 'take' anything. They will try and force most to 'turn' them in. Tools that are non restricted are on no list, what happens to them is up to the owner.
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You realize stores keep logs on what and who they sell to. The feds have access to that information on demand. If you bought something post license verification, they can find out what you have.
 
LexInfidelis said:
You realize stores keep logs on what and who they sell to. The feds have access to that information on demand. If you bought something post license verification, they can find out what you have.
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And you are free to buy and sell privately with any PAL holder by verifying their license…sending those that wish to confiscate on a wild goose chase. Choose freedom instead and stop living in fear. Buy what you want, especially if it is non-restricted.
 
WilliamM said:
Sell 'em to Mike from Canmore. How will they know otherwise?
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I’m talking more about purchases from retailers after May 2022. Technically if you purchased from a store, the make, model, and serial number are attached to you. A reference number for that transaction is then issued to you after license verification. In order to legally transfer that same firearm via private sale, a reference number must be attained for the sale to proceed.

If you claim you sold said firearms when pressed, without a reference number proving that firearm was transferred, there’s no evidence of a legal transfer. This leads the authorities to believing two things; firearm was not legally transferred, or it’s still in your possession and you’re refusing to comply.

Both are bad and likely won’t end well. I suspect the feds will be forcing retailers to give up information about customers. If the business closes they have to give up records anyway. Prior to license verification, they have no idea because NR transfers never required a reference number tracking transfers. This is why the new system is referred to as “registry that’s not a registry”.
 
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LexInfidelis said:
I’m talking more about purchases from retailers after May 2022. Technically if you purchased from a store, the make, model, and serial number are attached to you. A reference number for that transaction is then issued to you after license verification. In order to legally transfer that same firearm via private sale, a reference number must be attained for the sale to proceed.

If you claim you sold said firearms when pressed, without a reference number proving that firearm was transferred, there’s no evidence of a legal transfer. This leads the authorities to believing two things; firearm was not legally transferred, or it’s still in your possession and you’re refusing to comply.

Both are bad and likely won’t end well. I suspect the feds will be forcing retailers to give up information about customers. If the business closes they have to give up records anyway. Prior to license verification, they have no idea because NR transfers never required a reference number tracking transfers.
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I was under the impression that one only had to verify a PAL valid. Not keep a reference number. That seems awfully inconvenient.
 
WilliamM said:
I was under the impression that one only had to verify a PAL valid. Not keep a reference number. That seems awfully inconvenient.
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The way it’s written is that the reference number is required as proof of PAL verification. It’s meant to be inconvenient.
 
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LexInfidelis said:
The way it’s written is that the reference number is required as proof of PAL verification.
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As I understand it the verification number does not pertain to a specific firearm. It just means you sold (or bought) a firearm and verified the purchaser's (or seller's PAL). Plus, apparently only one verification is required per transaction so if you bought from (or sold) Joe Blow 10 guns in one transaction there is only one reference number required. The government doesn't know how many guns changed hands or which guns they were. They may be able to determine that you bought a specific gun from a specific dealer at a specific time but as long as you conducted other transactions subsequently (especially private rather than dealer sales), as far as they know that gun may be long gone to another person (or multiple persons).

Also, (and I stipulate that this is only my interpretation), if you get a reference number and then cancel the transaction (let's say the gun was in poor condition or not as advertised) you are under no obligation to notify the CFC that the transaction was not completed. So while their records indicate that you obtained a reference number that is not a guarantee that an actual transfer took place.

If a person only ever conducted one transfer (thus one reference number) and got a gun from a dealer then when the gestapo comes looking for that one gun the individual may have a problem if they can't produce it. However, if a person conducts numerous transactions (and thus obtains several reference numbers) it quickly becomes an undecipherable quagmire (giggity) for any authority trying to track ownership of a specific gun or guns.

Lastly (and I reiterate it's only my interpretation), there is no requirement to keep a a specific record of who you sold to or what you sold.

Thus, IF the above is correct it seems the best protection when the jackboots come calling is to have initiated numerous transactions (even if they weren't completed) thereby accumulating numerous reference numbers and making it virtually impossible to determine how many guns you have
or are supposed to have.

I stress again that I am not a lawyer and will happily stand to be corrected if any of the above is inaccurate.
 
The transfer number can be for anything, not just a firearm... you technically are required to do a transfer for magazines and other parts now too (as of Dec 15 2023), which I bet most people are not doing.
The transfer doesn't say anything about what it is for or what serial the transfer is attached too, unless you bought a firearm new from a store. Then they attach it to the firearm's serial number in their records and online with CFP.

It is a reference or confirmation number that a transfer for something occurred, it doesn't specify what is transferred, if it's a private sale.
 
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