Crusader Crypto 5.56 Nat Back in Stock – Again!

ted_dent said:
As I understand it the verification number does not pertain to a specific firearm. It just means you sold (or bought) a firearm and verified the purchaser's (or seller's PAL). Plus, apparently only one verification is required per transaction so if you bought from (or sold) Joe Blow 10 guns in one transaction there is only one reference number required. The government doesn't know how many guns changed hands or which guns they were. They may be able to determine that you bought a specific gun from a specific dealer at a specific time but as long as you conducted other transactions subsequently (especially private rather than dealer sales), as far as they know that gun may be long gone to another person (or multiple persons).

Also, (and I stipulate that this is only my interpretation), if you get a reference number and then cancel the transaction (let's say the gun was in poor condition or not as advertised) you are under no obligation to notify the CFC that the transaction was not completed. So while their records indicate that you obtained a reference number that is not a guarantee that an actual transfer took place.

If a person only ever conducted one transfer (thus one reference number) and got a gun from a dealer then when the gestapo comes looking for that one gun the individual may have a problem if they can't produce it. However, if a person conducts numerous transactions (and thus obtains several reference numbers) it quickly becomes an undecipherable quagmire (giggity) for any authority trying to track ownership of a specific gun or guns.

Lastly (and I reiterate it's only my interpretation), there is no requirement to keep a a specific record of who you sold to or what you sold.

Thus, IF the above is correct it seems the best protection when the jackboots come calling is to have initiated numerous transactions (even if they weren't completed) thereby accumulating numerous reference numbers and making it virtually impossible to determine how many guns you have
or are supposed to have.

I stress again that I am not a lawyer and will happily stand to be corrected if any of the above is inaccurate.
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I think you bring up some good points here about reference numbers. By all indications your assertions are correct. However, the way the law is written essentially states that a reference number is required as proof of PAL verification. Again, I could be wrong in the way I’m interpreting this.

When it comes to getting multiple reference numbers I agree that does obscure things quite a bit. However, how many people are actually doing that? I have seen a few people say they’re using the “Mike from Canmore” line if ever questioned.

My concern is what happens if an individual is unaware that a retailer gives up information about sales to the Feds. In that situation the individual will have to prove where said firearm is and if they claim they sold it, if no reference number for that sale exists that could mean trouble.
 
LexInfidelis said:
The way it’s written is that the reference number is required as proof of PAL verification. It’s meant to be inconvenient.
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What some heroes need to do is sell a single rifle between themselves repeatedly, a couple times a day if they have nothing better to do. Get this absurdly long paper trail and tell the government to go find it, afterall its their paperwork. If the government wants to create inconveniences, that road goes two ways...
 
SilentKnight said:
The transfer number can be for anything, not just a firearm... you technically are required to do a transfer for magazines and other parts now too (as of Dec 15 2023), which I bet most people are not doing.
The transfer doesn't say anything about what it is for or what serial the transfer is attached too, unless you bought a firearm new from a store. Then they attach it to the firearm's serial number in their records and online with CFP.

It is a reference or confirmation number that a transfer for something occurred, it doesn't specify what is transferred, if it's a private sale.
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Yeah, sorry. I forgot about all the other crap they have decided is too dangerous to transfer without a reference #. I'll remember that next I'm clubbing someone over the head with a mag (pinned to 5 rounds, of course).
 
ted_dent said:
Yeah, sorry. I forgot about all the other crap they have decided is too dangerous to transfer without a reference #. I'll remember that next I'm clubbing someone over the head with a mag (pinned to 5 rounds, of course).
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Yeah, it's become ridiculous what they demand of law abiding people who already follow all of the rules.
The flip side to all this nonsense is they have designed such a stupidly complicated, yet wildly ineffective system that it is likely going to cause more problems and work for them to untie, IF they ever do get to the point of forced confiscation. It will be so hard to undo the birds nest of transfers, while trying to figure out which ones are for firearms, and which ones are for magazines or some other part, it will be virtually impossible.
I may be wrong on this, but I believe you also technically need to do a transfer if your buddy "borrows" a gun of yours for a period of time, so let's start sharing more guns boys!

The record keeping by businesses is the part people are referring to when they reference a "registry" without us officially having one. In a way it is a registry for any new firearm sold to an individual, however it isn't the case with second hand or used items.
 
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Thank you for actually selling these unlike other retailers on here who run “sticker draws” rather than sell their inventory. Much appreciated!
 
LexInfidelis said:
You realize stores keep logs on what and who they sell to. The feds have access to that information on demand. If you bought something post license verification, they can find out what you have.
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They require a court order to obtain those records. I would not call that "on demand"
 
Also, does anyone know any other businesses that currently have crypto rifles in stock, and who offer layaway programs?
 
For second hand sales, just because a reference number is issued doesnt necessarily mean a transaction has actually taken place. For instance, a seller could ask the buyer to do a PAL verification before meeting in person. The buyer and seller meet and the buyer decides they don’t like something about the firearm and choose not to buy it. The reference number has been issued and there is no process to reverse a reference number. It disappears in 60 days. Also, when you get a reference number for someone, you are legally allowed to sell them more items within a 2 month window without getting another reference number issued as the whole purpose of the PAL verification is to tell you the other persons PAL is valid or not.
 
wildhog007 said:
For second hand sales, just because a reference number is issued doesnt necessarily mean a transaction has actually taken place. For instance, a seller could ask the buyer to do a PAL verification before meeting in person. The buyer and seller meet and the buyer decides they don’t like something about the firearm and choose not to buy it. The reference number has been issued and there is no process to reverse a reference number. It disappears in 60 days. Also, when you get a reference number for someone, you are legally allowed to sell them more items within a 2 month window without getting another reference number issued as the whole purpose of the PAL verification is to tell you the other persons PAL is valid or not.
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The numbers don’t disappear, they just expire. The government keeps those reference numbers on record.
 
Hey does anyone know if the new batch of crypto rifles has a different charging handle? Did the old charging handles have issues?
 
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