CSA M4 non-restricted VZ-58

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Are the chamber's in these rifles .223 rem spec. or 5.56x45mm NATO spec. anyway for you guys to confirm this ?
 
I should add. The ONLY difference between military ammo and civi ammo is the casing and primers. For the mil ammo they are "heavy duty", they are this way because ammo just gets thrown around and also used in machine guns.

Having said that the outside dimensions are the exact same. Just a thicker base and stronger primer.
 
86IltisAmb said:
I should add. The ONLY difference between military ammo and civi ammo is the casing and primers. For the mil ammo they are "heavy duty", they are this way because ammo just gets thrown around and also used in machine guns.

Having said that the outside dimensions are the exact same. Just a thicker base and stronger primer.
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That's not entirely true.

For the most part, you are right, but there are a few differences that can mean big problems in some situations.

The .223Rem and the 5.56 chambers differ in the neck diameter and the throat. The .223 Rem is tighter in the neck, and the rifling has less of the throat. (ie, the area of rifling relieved to allow the bullet to transition is less.)

The maximum operating pressure of the 5.56 is higher.

In the worst possible scenario, a max diameter and max pressure 5.56 cartridge fired in a minimum spec .223 Rem chamber could produce pressures that exceed proof loads.

Most commercial .223 Rem chambers are more generous. The danger is more theoretical then anything else.
 
.223 rem vs. 5.56x45mm NATO

I heard that it was a no no to shoot 5.56 in a .223 chamber, supposedly higher pressures in the 5.56 or something along those lines, but I could be wrong any way, I was mostly interested on what is the markings on the barrels, are they marked .223 rem or 5.56x45mm that's really it.
 
86IltisAmb said:
.223 and 5.56 are the EXACT same. Just as .308 and 7.62. Any AMMO tech in the military can confirm this.
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Incorrect.

While the 5.56mm NATO and .223 Remington cartridges and chamberings are very similar, they are not identical.

The 5.56mm NATO chambering, known as a NATO or mil-spec chamber, has a longer leade, which is the distance between the mouth of the cartridge and the point at which the rifling engages the bullet. The .223 Remington chambering, known as SAAMI chamber, is allowed to have a shorter leade, and is only required to be proof tested to the lower SAAMI chamber pressure. To address these issues, various proprietary chambers exist, such as the Wylde chamber (Bill Wylde)[8] or the ArmaLite chamber, which are designed to handle both 5.56mm NATO and .223 Remington equally well. The dimensions and leade of the .223 Remington minimum C.I.P. chamber also differ from the 5.56mm NATO chamber specification.

Using commercial .223 Remington cartridges in a 5.56mm NATO chambered rifle should work reliably, but generally will not be as accurate as when fired from a .223 Remington chambered gun due to the longer leade.[9] Using 5.56mm NATO mil-spec cartridges (such as the M855) in a .223 Remington chambered rifle can lead to excessive wear and stress on the rifle and even be unsafe, and the SAAMI recommends against the practice.[10][11] Some commercial rifles marked as ".223 Remington" are in fact suited for 5.56mm NATO, such as many commercial AR-15 variants and the Ruger Mini-14, but the manufacturer should always be consulted to verify that this is acceptable before attempting it, and signs of excessive pressure (such as flattening or gas staining of the primers) should be looked for in the initial testing with 5.56mm NATO ammunition.
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source
 
86IltisAmb said:
.223 and 5.56 are the EXACT same. Just as .308 and 7.62. Any AMMO tech in the military can confirm this.
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Wow, you couldn't be further from the truth. Perhaps do a little research before offering advice that could potentially be dangerous to a shooter and harmful to a firearm.
 
saskcop said:
Wow, you couldn't be further from the truth. Perhaps do a little research before offering advice that could potentially be dangerous to a shooter and harmful to a firearm.
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Ya man, you can use a 5.56 in a .223 but not vice versa, mind you I have never seen 5.56 in Canada ever.

7.62 is a diameter, there are 3 main forms of 7.62: the 7.62x39 SKS and AK47 to name a few. the 7.62x51 (very similar to .308) M-14 PKM machine gun (some variants) and 7.62x54 mosin-nagant
those are just common examples of guns traditionally chambered for that cartridge
7.62 is a very broad span of a specific measurement that stays consistent. 7.62 is for sure not all the same
 
quackbang said:
Ya man, you can use a 5.56 in a .223 but not vice versa, mind you I have never seen 5.56 in Canada ever.
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No. Doesn't jive with other sources. Please re-read:

donkSTRIKER said:
Using commercial .223 Remington cartridges in a 5.56mm NATO chambered rifle should work reliably, but generally will not be as accurate as when fired from a .223 Remington chambered gun due to the longer leade.[9] Using 5.56mm NATO mil-spec cartridges (such as the M855) in a .223 Remington chambered rifle can lead to excessive wear and stress on the rifle and even be unsafe, and the SAAMI recommends against the practice.[10][11] Some commercial rifles marked as ".223 Remington" are in fact suited for 5.56mm NATO, such as many commercial AR-15 variants and the Ruger Mini-14, but the manufacturer should always be consulted to verify that this is acceptable before attempting it, and signs of excessive pressure (such as flattening or gas staining of the primers) should be looked for in the initial testing with 5.56mm NATO ammunition.
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And apply that to this:

Canuck223 said:
The .223Rem and the 5.56 chambers differ in the neck diameter and the throat. The .223 Rem is tighter in the neck, and the rifling has less of the throat. (ie, the area of rifling relieved to allow the bullet to transition is less.)

The maximum operating pressure of the 5.56 is higher.

In the worst possible scenario, a max diameter and max pressure 5.56 cartridge fired in a minimum spec .223 Rem chamber could produce pressures that exceed proof loads.
Click to expand...

You end up with this:

.223 cartridge in a 5.56 rifle: loosey goosey
5.56 cartridge in .223 rifle: potential for danger
 
86IltisAmb said:
.223 and 5.56 are the EXACT same. Just as .308 and 7.62. Any AMMO tech in the military can confirm this.
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I am an AMMO tech in the military and your information is incorrect.

There are internal and external case dimension differences between .223 Rem and 5.56mm x 45mm.
 
556cham.gif
 
I digress

Anyway to get back to my original question instead of the continual racking of that poor person through the internet coals, can anyone confirm if the new non restricted CSA's are stamped 5.56x45mm or .223 rem. Thanks in advance to anyone with any info.

Chem
 
Chem said:
Anyway to get back to my original question instead of the continual racking of that poor person through the internet coals, can anyone confirm if the new non restricted CSA's are stamped 5.56x45mm or .223 rem. Thanks in advance to anyone with any info.

Chem
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They are stamped 5.56x45
 
Chem said:
Anyway to get back to my original question instead of the continual racking of that poor person through the internet coals, can anyone confirm if the new non restricted CSA's are stamped 5.56x45mm or .223 rem. Thanks in advance to anyone with any info.

Chem
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Yes. And they shoot 5.56 green tip ammo very well and accurate.
 
For the record, I interchange 5.56 with .223 and 7.62 with .308 on a regular basis and have for years. I have noticed absolutely no difference between the two. The only time a difference seems to come about is when the Internet is involved lol.
Have a look at Armalite or Springfields, or any other manufacturer's websites and see they advertise and sell their rifles as .223/5.56 and .308/7.62 .
I have been shooting for a long time and I have yet to run into someone that has ever noticed a difference in interchangeing said rounds, or ever had the slightest problem. With the differing of bullet weights, velocities and slight differences in manufactures, the imperceptible differences in neck sizes, etc are of no conciquence.
 
The difference between .223 and 5.56 becomes more of an issue when reloading. Care should be taken not to mix .223 and 5.56 brass. Also .223 ammo fired in a .223 rem chamber should not be reloaded and fired in a 5.56 chamber due to a risk of case splitting.
 
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