Cup and cores

[brybenn]

With all the new trends for higher velocity and 100%weight retention are there still those out there who still use heavy cup and core bullets in the 300wm?
In talking with my buddies they have all moved toward lighter faster harder bullets. Partitions are the exception and i doubt anyone can argue with them other than price and availibility
Im talkkng about the corloks and interlocks. The pro hunter and game king and hot core and the like. Do these in 180-220gr still have a place in the market for use in a 300 magnum?

 

[Slamfire]

Not anymore for me because those tend to blow up real good. Bonded core or mono for hunting with my 300 WM.

 

[sgt.rock]

They work unless the shot is <50yds. I find the velocity is still a bit too high at short range. Not quite as bad with 200gr and above weights as they usually stay in the desired impact speed range.

 

[hoytcanon]

I shoot lots of C&C bullets, but I don't shoot a .300 WM... I shoot them in .35 Whelen, .350 Rem Mag, .358 Win, 9.3X74R, .375 H&H, .405 Win... and many lesser cartridges.

 

[Dogleg]

Cup and cores are going to be around long after we are all dead and gone. There's a good reason why they are the standard; they make most of the people happy most of the time.

 

[Gatehouse]

Sure, they are still going to work but usually not optimum. Some guys don't know/don't care though.

IF you are going to use a fast cartridge why not use a bullet that will give you more of whatever you want to do. Smash big bones? One of the tougher constructed bullets. Shoot long range? One of the heavy sleek bullets.

 

[Slamfire]

If I take my 300 WM Sako 85 Grey Wolf hunting it's loaded with Woodleigh Weldcore 240gr PP SN at 2700 fps muzzle speed. A general purpose load. Should work not too bad.

.300 Win. Mag. Sako 85 Grey Wolf with Leupold FX-II 6x36mm

 

[hoytcanon]

Cup and Core are optimal on lung shots within their velocity range... there are trade offs regardless of which design you choose.

 

[Slamfire]

Bullet integrity needed to break bone on big Bear for example. Not to be under-loaded when I go hunting.

 

[Boomer]

Long range hunting seems to have taken hold, and cup and core match bullets like Match Kings or Berger VLDs are frequently the bullets of choice, for their long range precision and low velocity terminal performance. Back in the 1940s John Nosler realized that cup and core bullets left something to be desired on elk sized big game when used at .300 magnum velocities and the Nosler Partition was born. Now some consider the Partition a cup and core bullet since neither core is bonded, but if a Partition is a C&C bullet, its probably the very best one that can be chosen for a .300, are the last box of 180s I purchased wasn't priced like C&Cs.

 

[Glock4ever]

I think that you will see traditional bullets will stay around unless the price point of better bullets becomes comparable to the lower end offerings. A lot of fellows I know don't really care too much about the bullet design and just get whatever is cheapest and shoots decently in their rigs. While hardcore shooters like the people on CGN can promote a market for specialized expensive bullets, we are the minority of hunters. I know so many hunters that shoot <30 rds/year and want the cheapest stuff to shoot that I can't ever see the traditional SP ever going away.

 

[kman300]

If I take my 300 WM Sako 85 Grey Wolf hunting it's loaded with Woodleigh Weldcore 240gr PP SN at 2700 fps muzzle speed. A general purpose load. Should work not too bad.

.300 Win. Mag. Sako 85 Grey Wolf with Leupold FX-II 6x36mm

There are several threads you can read up on (eg africahunting) where people are complaining about woodleighs being soft and not holding together at the top end of their rated impact speed, never mind over it. If you are getting 2700fps from that bullet, only rated for 2400, that would put you at 125 yards or so for you to use that bullet at its upper impact velocity parameter. Lots of pictures and discussion out there. Check it out.

There are also lots of reports out there of the lrabs being soft and retaining, in some cases, 30% of their initial weight (210 lrab from a 300wm at 500 yards on a dog sized deer for example). There are plenty of heavy for caliber c&c bullets that will retain more than that. Especially at the reduced speeds and normal hunting ranges they are used at.

 

[Demonical]

Dollar for dollar you cannot beat a plain-Jane Hornady Interlock (or Remington Core-Lokt), when fired at sensible terminal velocities.

I've never been a fan of small, light, hyper-velocity blah, blah, blah...

 

[brybenn]

I own the slowest 300wm. It can only get 180gr woodlieghs to 2950fps. Most max loads barely break 2900fps. A good buddy is going to borrow it for a moose hunt this fall and asked if i could load him up a couple hundred rounds to practise with so i shopping around and theres quite a few cheaper 200gr options and i was curious how theyd hold up for typical moose hunting. I might try the 200gr hotcor. Be interesring to see how they compare to the woodleighs
I havent used the woodlieghs on anything other then grouse but they offer picture perfect expansion when fired into waterjugs

 

[Gatehouse]

I own the slowest 300wm. It can only get 180gr woodlieghs to 2950fps. Most max loads barely break 2900fps. A good buddy is going to borrow it for a moose hunt this fall and asked if i could load him up a couple hundred rounds to practise with so i shopping around and theres quite a few cheaper 200gr options and i was curious how theyd hold up for typical moose hunting. I might try the 200gr hotcor. Be interesring to see how they compare to the woodleighs
I havent used the woodlieghs on anything other then grouse but they offer picture perfect expansion when fired into waterjugs

There is no reason a 200 gr c&C bullet won't kill a moose, especially if it's a slow 300 like you say.

That's the way they used to get deep, straight line penetration before the advent of premium wonder bullets- Launch a big heavy bullet at moderate speeds. It's why the 215gr 303 or 160gr 6.5x55 bullets were such good moose killers. Moderate velocities ensured the bullet would remain intact and the retained bullet mass would provide the penetration.

Of course these days a 7-08 with a 140gr TSX bullet will also penetrate as well or better than a 30-06 with a 200 gr bullet too.

 

[brybenn]

Ya. I prefer heavy bullets at modest velocity. I was just curious what others load. The hotcors i loaded for my buddies 32 sp worked perfect for his bear last fall. After testing them in various ways i was impressed but they were fired at low 2000fps range.

 

[Suther]

Long range hunting seems to have taken hold, and cup and core match bullets like Match Kings or Berger VLDs are frequently the bullets of choice, for their long range precision and low velocity terminal performance. Back in the 1940s John Nosler realized that cup and core bullets left something to be desired on elk sized big game when used at .300 magnum velocities and the Nosler Partition was born. Now some consider the Partition a cup and core bullet since neither core is bonded, but if a Partition is a C&C bullet, its probably the very best one that can be chosen for a .300, are the last box of 180s I purchased wasn't priced like C&Cs.

I find they're one of the more expensive options on the shelf, even among the premium bullets. Last box I looked at was $68 for 50 bullets, 150gr 277cal. For that price, I'll pass, you can get a bonded or all copper bullet for the same price (or less, Woodleighs are only $40/50).

If I'm specifically going moose or elk hunting, I'll look for a 150gr premium bullet. I had a nice load with the partitions, but they're too darn expensive so I'm going to work up a load with the woodleighs next. I also worked up a nice load with a 130gr ballistic tip which is what I've carried on me for the last two seasons.... Which of course I left sitting on the bed when I went and got my bear last fall. He fell to a 130gr corelokt that I bought from Canadian Tire the day before... Even at +/- 3000fps, the corelokt went right through both lungs and out the other side so a cup and core bullet can certainly still do the job... There is a higher chance of poor performance from a cup and core bullet, particularly if you hit a large bone, but if you're putting it broadside through the lungs it really doesn't matter.

 

[woodchopper]

Long range hunting seems to have taken hold, and cup and core match bullets like Match Kings or Berger VLDs are frequently the bullets of choice, for their long range precision and low velocity terminal performance. Back in the 1940s John Nosler realized that cup and core bullets left something to be desired on elk sized big game when used at .300 magnum velocities and the Nosler Partition was born. Now some consider the Partition a cup and core bullet since neither core is bonded, but if a Partition is a C&C bullet, its probably the very best one that can be chosen for a .300, are the last box of 180s I purchased wasn't priced like C&Cs.

I use a 200grn accubond for my 300WM, the only 2 bullets recovered both retained about 80% of their original weight.

2900FPS using IMR4831. Its a stout load.

 

[nowarningshot]

Partitions may be pricey but it's all relative. Run into the dream animal of a lifetime....not pricey. Compared to fuel to get to your hunting area, or two weeks vacation....not pricey.

 

[Suther]

Partitions may be pricey but it's all relative. Run into the dream animal of a lifetime....not pricey. Compared to fuel to get to your hunting area, or two weeks vacation....not pricey.

Of course its all relative. However, every little bit counts in the long run, especially if you're on the low end of the income scale. If I shoot 200 rds a year, the savings from buying woodleighs over partitions is like $100, which is enough gas and food for one more weekend trip...