Curious on PC bullets in rifles

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209jones

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Read a LOT of stuff on Cast Boolits on PC boolits. Down to the point now, where I only need to really see if they are matching existing accuracy with lubed boolits, in a rifle. I have my 450-400 working well, with LBT Blue @ 2040 and a 320gr and a 400gr boolit at 1880. Also have a load for my .218bee that works well in the 2200 range.
For those who have tried it, with their rifles, how is PC working downrange for you?
I saw where people were trying to shoot PB's @ GC speeds, or trying to drive soft alloys to GC speeds. Those were probably destined to fail..... If it didn't work for you, what were you trying to achieve, with what alloy?
My expectations are for 2-1/2" on a bad day with the 450-400 at 100, 1" on the 218bee at 100.
That comfortably doable with PC? Haven't seen real proof of that being the case, yet.\, Maybe it is still too new, for enough people to have worked it out yet?
 
PC - powder coat
GC - gas check
PB - plain base (a bullet designed not to take gas checks)
PP - paper patch

1" at 100yds with any cast bullet, PC'ed or GC'ed is difficult to achieve. I have a Rem 700 in 308 that with jacketed bullets I can often shoot 1/2" at 100yds and with GC'ed bullets I am often only shooting 1.25" groups. I have shot some groups a little under 1" but that isn't the norm. PC'ing isn't PP'ing and if you want to shoot soft alloy bullets accurate and at higher velocities you may be better off PP'ing instead. I PC for a Marlin 1894 in 44 mag with Micro Groove rifling that doesn't shoot cast bullets worth a damn. The PC'ing got rid of the leading but the bullets still tumble all over the place at the same velocities as before. I don't know if they're stripping themselves on the rifling or not as I've read articles saying bullet stripping isn't possible but I know for sure that all the PC'ing does is stop the leading.

Various people are PC'ing and using GC's to good effect. The normal method I see is to PC the cast bullets and use a Lee push-through sizer to size them down and apply the GC.

As far as I've read if you want to reach for higher velocities with PC'ed bullets you still need to be using harder alloys. The PC paint acts as a lube and barrier but isn't structural so can't make the bullet more durable mechanically.
 
LUTNIT said:
PC - powder coat
GC - gas check
PB - plain base (a bullet designed not to take gas checks)
PP - paper patch

1" at 100yds with any cast bullet, PC'ed or GC'ed is difficult to achieve. I have a Rem 700 in 308 that with jacketed bullets I can often shoot 1/2" at 100yds and with GC'ed bullets I am often only shooting 1.25" groups. I have shot some groups a little under 1" but that isn't the norm. PC'ing isn't PP'ing and if you want to shoot soft alloy bullets accurate and at higher velocities you may be better off PP'ing instead. I PC for a Marlin 1894 in 44 mag with Micro Groove rifling that doesn't shoot cast bullets worth a damn. The PC'ing got rid of the leading but the bullets still tumble all over the place at the same velocities as before. I don't know if they're stripping themselves on the rifling or not as I've read articles saying bullet stripping isn't possible but I know for sure that all the PC'ing does is stop the leading.

Various people are PC'ing and using GC's to good effect. The normal method I see is to PC the cast bullets and use a Lee push-through sizer to size them down and apply the GC.

As far as I've read if you want to reach for higher velocities with PC'ed bullets you still need to be using harder alloys. The PC paint acts as a lube and barrier but isn't structural so can't make the bullet more durable mechanically.
Click to expand...

I also have Marlin 1894 44mag JM and shoot pc bullets really well, mind you its at 50 yards.

I use unique and h110 with TL430-240swc lee mold
 
f55 said:
I also have Marlin 1894 44mag JM and shoot pc bullets really well, mind you its at 50 yards.

I use unique and h110 with TL30-240swc lee mold
Click to expand...
We're using the same bullet mold.
I've done a lot of research into Micro Groove barrels and cast bullets and it seems to be a really hit-or-miss situation where one rifle might shoot cast just fine but another that appears identical can't shoot them at all. I've tried unique, bluedot, SR4759, H110, longshot, and titegroup. I've tried different velocities from 44 special to 44 magnum and in between with them all and no matter what the rifle can't go above 1000-1100fps without tumbling the bullets all over. I guess my rifle just doesn't like cast bullets. I'm probably going to order a custom 300gr gas check mold (.434") to try out. If nothing else the heavier bullets should be able to be pushed to higher muzzle energy levels if it is a velocity limit I'm dealing with. The longer bearing surface might also help.
 
I may give them a whirl on the 450-400 with some 320's. Not sure I want to use the time on the 218bee as it shoots fine the way it is, and that took some time and effort to get working right. If I can keep the 320 working the way it is with a PC 'd boolit, that would be great. It's a 150 yd gun, and if it'll hold a deer's kill zone reliably at that distance, it is actually all I need, but, I am also conditioned to shooting 2" 10-shot groups out of my 32-40 at 200. Those were breech seated in a heavy barrel though, and didn't come up to POA til it had 3 shots thru it.. That likely gives a better picture of my mindset on it. Cast boolits can shoot well if you have a good barrel and work on them. I am hoping the first try with some GC'd water dropped wheelweights will be the ticket, but..... Murphy ain't stepped into the picture yet. Still have to see if it'll work off cold bore shots with PC's. May have to heat treat them to get that to work, and the temp used to PC is possibly an issue, as to annealing them a bit thru that part of the process. Have to test a few rejects out to see what occurs there.
 
Guess I will go shopping for some airsoft bb's, no stick tinfoil, a temp gun (hold that thought, there is one at work) an oven and a mask today. Think I will try talking to a couple of the local powder coating outfits to see if I can scab a wee bit of some paint from one, on Monday. One is about two blocks from work, danged convenient. Hard to say what they may have available, but, I'm not too picky on what colours I use. Looks like they should both have RAL colours, and Super Durables. The one issue so far, is the pushthru dies, they will have to be custom made ones for .409..411 and .412, the .410 can be bought stock.
It's nice to have a new project to work on.
 
Keep it simple.

Use teaspoon of powder may be less, enough that when you finish swirling the tub around you don't have much left.

30 to 60 seconds swirling and then bake

get a small cheap oven to start.

Red and blue seem to work best for me, don't worry about coating every part of the bullet you only need a thin layer.
 
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I ended up getting an oven at Krappy tire, 99.95, they had a smaller one at 69.95, but, I thought perhaps I may be able to to a bigger batch in it later on, after figuring out whatever quirks I need to figure out.
I can use it for heat treating bullets anyway. Costco was 89.95 for the same oven, but, no membership.
And a Rubbermaid bowl, 10.00 and a laser thermometer, 29.95, which I have other uses for as well.
Got the airsoft BB's at Basspro.
Then I got tired of traffic. Hit Wallyworld and Princess Auto tomorrow, for the tinfoil and respirator.
I wonder if they'll honor the 5yr warranty on the oven, if neccesary, after cookin' boolits in it....
 
Well, today's quest got me parchment paper, Non-Stick Foil @ Wally's, a mask @ Princess, a .410 pushthru sizer at WS and some more airsoft BB's of a different kind, from CT on Southland Dr.
They also had a better selection of convection toaster/ovens than the NE store, had small Sunbeams on for 50.00, big Black & Decker for 89.95.
Certainly reminded myself why I don't like shopping at Walmart.
Ready to go other than a fresh casting session and some paint. I have a bunch of 400gr Saeco's to melt as they are undersized, that mould won't throw a 411 bullet, I may try some of those though. It will throw .4095, with the PC to bump them up, it may be worth a few shots for experimentation. They are PB's, but, a guy can try them and see what happens for fun,the load should get them to the 1875 range. And I'll do 100 of the 320gr LBT WFN's, a "hard" #2 blend, w/ gator .416 gaschecks, water drop them, sort them +/- 1 gr., size them after casting and after coating. See what they do at 2050, or whatever they come out at, with the coating vs lube change.
I'll use 48gr AA5744/GMF215M with them. Last batch I did leaded a bit, may have been a bit softer than previous one, tossed some bullets in that batch, that I couldn't remember what they were built from, may have been 1/20. I'll make sure they come out a bit harder this time. May harden a few in the oven also, see what difference that may make.
 
I use the Lee 150 grain .309 flat point mold for my .30 rifles. With my K-31 I was getting average 3" groups at 100 yards using 11 grains of unique (sights set to 400 yards) when using traditional lube.

When I switched to PC with the same bullet I sized down to .308 and added the GC before doing the PC by tumble method. Groups shrank slightly to 2.5 inches. Recovered bullets in the backstop still have a good coating even where the rifling carved in.

I also use 450 grain PC bullets in my 45-70 but I haven't noticed any improvement in accuracy there, just in easier cleaning.

Even if it is slightly more work than traditional lube the real payoff is in how much cleaner everything is. No more grey fingers when loading or lube gumming up dies.
 
Scored some red and black gloss paint yesterday. Guy at the shop mentioned they had a problem melting solder once while baking, thought that sounded odd. So, I have a couple of 3oz containers of we are not sure what brand/colour code of paint, but, good enough to try out.
Apparently RAL is a Euro colour code standard indicator, so, RAL in front of the code doesn't mean much. And these guys still use TGIC paints on some stuff as it works better in some apps. He didn't have a clue on doing lead.
 
Try asking around the Marlin Owners forum for insight into micro-groove rifling and cast..........Harold
 
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