Custom .22 Benchrest build

[Toolman]

Sigh.....

Jerry

Jefferson’s delivery may be a little gruff and direct but he isn’t wrong though. An experienced CF gunsmith is certainly capable of building a good rimfire rifle but not without a very steep learning curve. The time and techniques needed for creating a really good chamber are very demanding. So many considerations, engraving depth, leade angle, PCL, firing pin shape, firing pin depth and more. You can buy reamers with several different body diameters, with and without taper. Lots of decisions to make and each one affects the next.

Like I said, a good CF gunsmith can build a good rimfire but it shouldn’t be assumed that just because he’s a smith it’s no problem.

 

[EHG]

I have to admit, I could technically build a .22 LR BR gun, but the fact is I don't know much about all the different chambers and other variables. You really have to be in the Rimfire BR game to know this. I'd be wasting my time especially when sanctioned Rimfire BR matches don't exist anywhere close to me. I have a Rem 40X RF, but I would get an experienced smith in that game to custom it.

 

[PGW Steve]

I've had a 2500X plus a Benchmark barrel sitting on my desk for almost three years now I think, it's been so long. I've talked to Jerry Stiller a few times at SHOT and got some tips and tricks on chambering, which is the black art of RFBR. Having put more than one CF rifle together, there is a different technique for RF guns. Some day I'll end up shooting it, might pass the parts onto a certain BR smith that I know and respect who has been doing some meticulous testing on his own rifle and the results are exceptional.

 

[Mystic Precision]

Jerry your advice and top notch service are very much appreciated by me .

Thanks

Jerry

 

[guntech]

There are many things about a center fire barrel chambering that carry over to rim fire...

Both barrels need to be fitted concentric to the action and the chambers need to be concentric. The importance of the crown is the same. Minimum head spacing is important and a tight chamber with the bullet engraving on bolt closure is important with rim fire. You get that with the reamer you use. That seems to change like the flavour of the month...

 

[EHG]

...You get that with the reamer you use. That seems to change like the flavour of the month...

This is where I'm at. I could order a reamer today and by the time it arrives there have been two more updates. So here I sit looking at my 40X.

 

[Jefferson]

most of the great USA RIMFIRE gun builders have 1 or 2 reamer designs they like and use,

some have used the same specs for a decade

This is where I'm at. I could order a reamer today and by the time it arrives there have been two more updates. So here I sit looking at my 40X.

 

[yodave]

1.5 degree lead is here to stay, eley match isn't going anywhere anytime soon so I'd like to think we're okay for our lifetime or at least a barrel

 

[yodave]

This is where I'm at. I could order a reamer today and by the time it arrives there have been two more updates. So here I sit looking at my 40X.

research coned breach and the ability to change your headspace simply by tightening your barrel down on the action, or loosening depending on the rim thickness of your ammo, oh the possibilities of what you can get/do are only limited to your budget and your time left to fling lead

 

[Jefferson]

even Lilja does a coned breech on some rimfire barrels.

Yes 1.5 seems to work well better than the old 4

research coned breach and the ability to change your headspace simply by tightening your barrel down on the action, or loosening depending on the rim thickness of your ammo, oh the possibilities of what you can get/do are only limited to your budget and your time left to fling lead

 

[EHG]

research coned breach and the ability to change your headspace simply by tightening your barrel down on the action, or loosening depending on the rim thickness of your ammo, oh the possibilities of what you can get/do are only limited to your budget and your time left to fling lead

Yep, I know what a coned breech is. Interesting, dialing your headspace in.
I get that and the budget/time left in this world. LOL
Do I get a Lapua, then maybe an Eley. Lapua much easier for me to get in Ontario. Whose grinding the best Lapua reamer?

 

[guntech]

The biggest advantage of a coned breech is no extractor cuts are required. The big disadvantage is the thin weak edge all around the chamber. I don't like the coned breech because of that. I think it is a cheap way out of the barreling process.

 

[yodave]

Yep, I know what a coned breech is. Interesting, dialing your headspace in.
I get that and the budget/time left in this world. LOL
Do I get a Lapua, then maybe an Eley. Lapua much easier for me to get in Ontario. Whose grinding the best Lapua reamer?

never heard of anyone win anything big and noteworthy with lapua ammo, well maybe the 10 meter indoor position guys, but when it comes to benchrest or IBS score it's eley or nothing. Lapua makes great ammo for sloppy factory chambers, eley is the ammo to go to for custom anything

 

[grauhanen]

In addition to not needing extractor cuts, another advantage with the cone breech is that it allows for easy barrel indexing. The reservations about the weak edge and it's potential to be deformed easily is valid. On RFC some shooters who used Lilja cone breech barrels on modified CZ rifles reported accidental dry firing caused the cone to be damaged.

Not to be contentious, with regard to ammo, while Eley may be used more often, it should be noted that Lapua ammo was used by winning teams as recently as 2018 at the ISSF World Championships in Chanwong, Korea. Great results notwithstanding, the ammo used by shooters winning big and noteworthy competitions, whether they are Eley, Lapua, or something else, are from specially selected lots and are not available to anyone posting here.

 

[Jefferson]

In addition to not needing extractor cuts, another advantage with the cone breech is that it allows for easy barrel indexing. The reservations about the weak edge and it's potential to be deformed easily is valid. On RFC some shooters who used Lilja cone breech barrels on modified CZ rifles reported accidental dry firing caused the cone to be damaged.

Not to be contentious, with regard to ammo, while Eley may be used more often, it should be noted that Lapua ammo was used by winning teams as recently as 2018 at the ISSF World Championships in Chanwong, Korea. Great results notwithstanding, the ammo used by shooters winning big and noteworthy competitions, whether they are Eley, Lapua, or something else, are from specially selected lots and are not available to anyone posting here.

AGREED

if you do not understand the barrel indexing thing, go back to bed mr gunsmith

barrel indexing on a rail gun finds the sweetspot in the barrel for vibration or harmonics

if the PRX (sp) formula still thought to be good for tuners,

so much to learn as opposed to going up half a grain in powder and jamming in the lands,

we have not got started on stock vibration and bedding angles yet

Jerry where are you for this discussion, still selling pre fit savage barrels and discontinued bullets,

Jerry is a good guy but to have fans say they like his advice is also OK but not on topic, RIMFIRE RIMFIRE RIMFIRE

so much to learn even about leade angles,

LATER OFF TO THE CITY FOR rimfire PARTS SHHH DONT TELL

 

[EHG]

1.5 degree lead is here to stay, eley match isn't going anywhere anytime soon so I'd like to think we're okay for our lifetime or at least a barrel

The same lead for centerfire jacketed pills? I would have thought soft lead required a different one. I'll look more at an Eley reamer once the chamber is sorted out. I prefer to study chamber prints and designs to understand why this or that works or not. It's been easy enough for me to design centerfire jacketed chambers, but I admit the .22LR is more of a challenge to me because it has to be built around the cartridge. If the parameters of the cartridge change so does the outcome.

Here's another question. What is the principle behind reverse taper barrels and are they still popular?

 

[Papaclaude]

AGREED

if you do not understand the barrel indexing thing, go back to bed mr gunsmith

barrel indexing on a rail gun finds the sweetspot in the barrel for vibration or harmonics

if the PRX (sp) formula still thought to be good for tuners,

so much to learn as opposed to going up half a grain in powder and jamming in the lands,

we have not got started on stock vibration and bedding angles yet

Jerry where are you for this discussion, still selling pre fit savage barrels and discontinued bullets,

Jerry is a good guy but to have fans say they like his advice is also OK but not on topic, RIMFIRE RIMFIRE RIMFIRE

so much to learn even about leade angles,

LATER OFF TO THE CITY FOR rimfire PARTS SHHH DONT TELL

Holy crap man - I take you're not a career diplomat?

 

[hoytcanon]

Jerry where are you for this discussion, still selling pre fit savage barrels....

How about prefits that are not even threaded... full diameter tenon...

 

[rslowe]

Wow this is an interesting conversation.

 

[yodave]

The same lead for centerfire jacketed pills? I would have thought soft lead required a different one. I'll look more at an Eley reamer once the chamber is sorted out. I prefer to study chamber prints and designs to understand why this or that works or not. It's been easy enough for me to design centerfire jacketed chambers, but I admit the .22LR is more of a challenge to me because it has to be built around the cartridge. If the parameters of the cartridge change so does the outcome.

Here's another question. What is the principle behind reverse taper barrels and are they still popular?

there are a couple rich guys in the USA that have the time and money to play, send them a thank you card for doing all the research for us as they have chambered barrels with 4 degrees all the way down to 1 degree and everything in between, the luxury of them having an indoor range and 4 rifles to compare notes with has shown us that 1.5 degree leade gives the most consistent groups between all 4 rifles and all ammo shot. We can take their wealth of proven info and run with it, or we can fight it trying to prove them wrong, neither you or I have the time or money to prove them wrong or right, so go 1.5 degrees and send them a thank you card.

the only thing you really have to sort out when ordering a reamer is the freebore, which isn't really freebore on a rimfire chamber but we know what it is and it relates the same to the cartridge, but again, these guys have spent nothing but money chambering and testing .......if you want the best answer I'd call Bill and tell him that your buying your ammo in 2019 and you'd like to know what reamer they have had the best luck with......he's a nice guy and wants to see everyone win and he won't hold back info, he is also going to use you as a test subject, if your rifle shoots it will be another feather in his cap.

Yes you want a choked barrel, to further stabilize the bullet before it leaves the barrel you need every ounce of help you can get, then you want to get into front rest location tuning, rear bag location tuning, and finally barrel tuner settings, rimfire is the hardest rifle to shoot on the bench, but if you can master it, centerfire becomes boring