cut and crown

I don't think simply owning a hacksaw qualifies one to properly cut and crown a barrel.

But if you're a remotely handy person with some experience cutting square edges, it really is just about the easiest home project you can do. Barrel metal isn't typically very hard steel, and cuts/files easily. Your best bet is to read a few how-tos, watch a few vids, then take the best techniques you see from each and employ them.

There are plenty of reasons for which I'd drop a gun off at the smith, but cutting 2 inches off the end of a pipe isn't one of them.
 
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If you're unsure, just cut off and crown ONE inch.

If it goes well, cut it to your desired length, crown it, and pat yourself on the back for a job well done.

If it goes poorly, take it to the smith, make up an elaborate tale about the "previous owner" who butchered it, then have them finish it to the length you want.
 
anchor3593 said:
Those are very interesting links LegiOn - thank-you.

I may have missed it, but I saw neither experiment do a perfect recrown and shoot again to see what improvement can be made over the original on the rifle.

I did not expect a point of impact change like that from being hit by a hammer on the muzzle - it was making decent groups - just on a different target.

The mess that they made of the rifling on the one gun may have been all the way around - results may have differed if it were only one side damaged.

I dropped a gun a few years ago - had it clamped between my arm and my side as I did up my coat or something - then I got bumped, spreading my arm away from my side and the rifle went straight down - and made a nasty divot in the muzzle - off to the side of the bore. It needed resighting after but it still shoots nice. Now I wonder if I should dig it out and recrown it and see if the point of impact moves back again.

I don't have a 100 yard table set up, so I shoot at 2 - and the results of this simple job have always been remarkable - on hunting rifles.

Yes Big Boar - a brass bushed pilot would be great. I'll check them out.

Edit: So Brownells has some nice little cutters - 150$ per calibre - or a two calibre set with a crank for 370$ - or a facer for 58$ or 75$ plus a pilot for 25$ or 35$. Steel or brass pilots. If a guy was into one calibre - say doing bench rest - it would be worth it. I wonder that they turn the pilots in the bore rather than having a small steel pilot with a brass bushing to bring it up to bore size - so the brass doesn't get chewed up on the rifling as it spins.

Kamlooky - thanks - I have lived on this earth for some time now - and enjoy many precious memories - but in my memory, I have not received such a "compliment" as an above poster saw fit to bestow. Yes - we all see things differently - and one thing that changes folks is poverty. When we have money, we fix stuff with cash - when we have been poor, we learn to make do or do without. Po' folks are alway inventing - but it is not marketable to folks that has cash.

More Edit: So I'm looking at the pictures and thinking that they sure look like Lee Case Length cutters - which also have a pilot which would be - um - the size of the inside of the neck of a case - which could have a bushing made to fit. So I run/stroll to the reloading bench to see a few of them - and doubt that they are made suitable to cut steel but I don't know yet for sure - barrel steel is quite soft. The Lee cutters are about .495 to .510 or thereabouts in diameter so they wouldn't square off the whole face of the muzzle. Wrapping paper around the pilot might be a fairly accurate way to bush it up to size ( cue howling). It is late for this old codger - g'night.
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This reminds me much of my upbringing. My Dad had a good job, but never made a lot of money. How he raised us 4 kids on what he made still boggles my mind, as I make many times what he made and still struggle. We had to do almost everything ourselves, with very little in the way of modern tools. What I would have done for a set of simple torches back when I had to take the rusty nuts off the exhaust on my Dad's old ford fairmont wagon. Lost a fingernail in the process.
Thing is, had we had the money to pay to get everything done, I wouldn't know 1/10 of what I know today. I am able to fix just about anything that goes wrong with my house or car, saving bundles of money in the process. My Dad was an instrumentation technician with grade 10 education, and even having learned all that I did from him(He's still my tech support for everything from baking to brazing) I wish I had paid more attention and spent more time with him, I always tell people I would be doing well if I could learn to fix/make 1/10 of the stuff my Dad does.
What I find lacking in people nowadays are the most basic things in life, like trying. Most people won't even make an attempt to fix something they've never worked on before, all it takes is a bit of desire and courage. You can teach yourself just about anything there is to do, and most people I know who taught themselves how to do something are usually the most brilliant.
My best friend Greg is about the best example outside of my Dad, taught himself basic blacksmithing 20 years ago, and now he is an accomplished knife maker who makes his own Damascus steel and some of the most beautiful blades and metal artwork I have ever seen.
 
The method that Anchor3593 is describing actually works quite well for $100.00 guns when you do not have a lathe or need to pay a gunsmith. I have done three or four rifles using this method and it works well. I use a chop saw and a level rather than a hacksaw and until you have actually tried levelling your cut with a file save your comments to yourself. when using the convex bolt head or what ever tool with valve grinding compound in a circular motion everything stays relatively even at the crown (which is all we are really trying to improve here). The muzzle exterior is all cosmetics and has nothing to do with rifle accuracy. I do not use this method on my Kreigers and Shilens because I do have a Lathe and mill in the garage, but not everyone does and to those who read too many magazines and have absolutely no experience in trying it, my advice is keep your negative comments to yourself. The golden rule is "Shootin Paper at 100 meters says it all".
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It seems like there's three kinds of people on this forum: the "professional", the guy that brings his gunsmith to the rang e with him to load his magazines and the hard-core "do it yourselfer". These threads go one way or the other depending on who the first few people to comment are. I'm a big fan of do-it-yourself and learning things along the way as long as it's not dangerous. After all it's my steel and if I want to make a mess of it, that's my business. If all you're going to say is "don't do that , bring it to a gunsmith" keep your comments to yourself.
 
Buster isn't it funny how they react. Like its a fort Knox secret about a simple operation that has been done with accuracy at home many times. With a brass screw and lapping compound as part of the process. That has been done with good sucess many times. There are many newer products for crown finishing that do to the brass screw the same thing that a snowblower did to the shovel. Usually the posts like that should be ignored!! "LOL" My2¢

R
 
"Keep It Simple Stupid"

Er, now, if we can just keep the discussion civil (and simple)...

As I stated on page 1, I've got a ~$500 revolver with a 7-1/2" octagonal barrel. I want to convert it to a 5" long barrel. "Accuracy" is not an issue, as long as we can hit "minute of man" at 15 yards.
I know how to use a hack saw. Five years ago I rebuilt a Harley-Davidson, but all I've got now is a small shop with a workbench, a vise, and a hacksaw. OK, a hacksaw, and a few basic mechanic's tools. This is probably a once-in-a-lifetime job, so I won't spend big money on specialist tools. I have never shortened a gun barrel, so I thought to check with the membership for guidance from those with experience in doing this the right/simple/inexpensive way. No lathe advice, no micrometers necessary. I just want it to be safe, and to look good when I'm done.
thx
 
thx

kodiakjack said:
If you're unsure, just cut off and crown ONE inch.
If it goes well, cut it to your desired length, crown it, and pat yourself on the back for a job well done.
If it goes poorly, take it to the smith, make up an elaborate tale about the "previous owner" who butchered it, then have them finish it to the length you want.
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"Pure dead BRILLIANT!"
Now, that's what I'm talkin' 'bout!
A hacksaw and (at least) half a brain!
:yingyang:
 
Not sure what the problem is, or all the hoopla on the thread before. It's not exactly difficult, just take your time, hand tools, file, sand paper, works. There are other threads where members have shown their results with the method.
 
xdmer said:
Not sure what the problem is, or all the hoopla on the thread before. It's not exactly difficult, just take your time, hand tools, file, sand paper, works. There are other threads where members have shown their results with the method.
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Well, as far as some people are concerned anything to do with firearms is Rocket Science and only Rocket Scientist can do it effectively. If not done by a Rocket Scientist a catastrophic failure will surely occur. Don't believe it?? Post a thread about the new 303 British you just bought and guaranteed you will get at least two nimrods urging you to check the headspace for the same reason as above.
 
I have cut and crowned barrels by:

-with hacksaw and brass roundhead screw with valve grinding compound.
-with hacksaw and Brownells crowning kit, with piloted cutters.
-with a lathe.

If possible, I use the lathe. I know that I can do the job dead true. Then again, I have a lathe.

Something not mentioned in this thread is how to handle the front sight, if there is one, and if it is desirable to retain a front sight. Do the layout for remounting the front sight before cutting, while the sight is still in its original position. If there is a screwed on ramp, drill and tap before cutting the barrel. I use a Forster jig. Although those who dislike good tools would probably prefer to eyeball the job. A front sight that isn't top dead center really stands out.
 
tiriaq said:
I have cut and crowned barrels by:

-with hacksaw and brass roundhead screw with valve grinding compound.
-with hacksaw and Brownells crowning kit, with piloted cutters.
-with a lathe.

If possible, I use the lathe. I know that I can do the job dead true. Then again, I have a lathe.

Something not mentioned in this thread is how to handle the front sight, if there is one, and if it is desirable to retain a front sight. Do the layout for remounting the front sight before cutting, while the sight is still in its original position. If there is a screwed on ramp, drill and tap before cutting the barrel. I use a Forster jig. Although those who dislike good tools would probably prefer to eyeball the job. A front sight that isn't top dead center really stands out.
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Great post, filled with truth and experience
 
tiriaq said:
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Something not mentioned in this thread is how to handle the front sight, if there is one, and if it is desirable to retain a front sight. Do the layout for remounting the front sight before cutting, while the sight is still in its original position. If there is a screwed on ramp, drill and tap before cutting the barrel. I use a Forster jig. Although those who dislike good tools would probably prefer to eyeball the job. A front sight that isn't top dead center really stands out.
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Good advise.

But for those that didn't think that far ahead (sigh... me...) a gun vise, a bore sighter, some thin 2 sided tape, and the new front sight works wonders. Took a little doing but worked like a charm. That little .22 now shoots dime sized clovers at 25 yards with tru-glo sights.
 
Cold Warrior said:
Er, now, if we can just keep the discussion civil (and simple)...

As I stated on page 1, I've got a ~$500 revolver with a 7-1/2" octagonal barrel. I want to convert it to a 5" long barrel. "Accuracy" is not an issue, as long as we can hit "minute of man" at 15 yards.
I know how to use a hack saw. Five years ago I rebuilt a Harley-Davidson, but all I've got now is a small shop with a workbench, a vise, and a hacksaw. OK, a hacksaw, and a few basic mechanic's tools. This is probably a once-in-a-lifetime job, so I won't spend big money on specialist tools. I have never shortened a gun barrel, so I thought to check with the membership for guidance from those with experience in doing this the right/simple/inexpensive way. No lathe advice, no micrometers necessary. I just want it to be safe, and to look good when I'm done.
thx
Click to expand...

Let us know how that goes. The process has been laid out in a couple different forms throughout the thread, pick one and try it out. As mentioned, take 1 inch off the barrel at a time to make sure you're doing it correctly
 
My Plan is as follows:

Firstly, thanks for those valuable tips, gentlemen.

The octagonal barrel of this period revolver is easily removed.
The plan is to wrap it in some protective clothing (yes, denim may suffice) mount it into the vise, and firstly inspect the front sight. It's nothing elaborate--just a conical brass post set into a shallow hole drilled into the flat top side near the front of the barrel.
I won't attempt to salvage that brass post; I hope to drill another hole ~2-1/2" behind the existing one and fab a new brass post to either epoxy or JB into the new hole.

I do plan to perform a "practice cut" at about the 6-1/2" mark, performing all the preparatory work for that as well.
I plan to wrap the barrel in plastic tape right behind where I want to make my cut. Then, why not be safe, and put a hose clamp over the tape so that the front side of the band is exactly where I want the new muzzle to be? OK, maybe just a bit farther out to allow for final trimming. I'll place the tightening screw at the bottom of the barrel, such that my cut will be nearly completed when the blade reaches the bottom. Then I can remove the clamp and finish the cut (which should be fairly straight and square). Then it's just a matter of chamfering all 8 flat sides of the new muzzle with a flat file, and then this...crowning affair.

As I understand it, the new crown is made by finding the correctly sized brass round headed screw, putting the pointy end into the chuck of my variable speed drill and, with the aid of some lapping compound, using it to 'ream' the new crown into the muzzle. The brass head, being of softer stuff, will begin to shape and polish the inside of the barrel without causing any damage. I can also practice this operation on the portion of the barrel I just lopped off until i'm familiar with the process.
I should be prepared with several additional brass screws, should the first one wear itself out before it's done its work.
Have I got that part correct?

Then I've just to find the correct material with which to fashion the new front sight. I'm not tied to replicating the existing post--I might even consider installing a blade, depending on how it's attached, as long as it's 'period', e.g. 1860-ish. BTW--The rear sight is rather amusing--It's a notch cut into the top of the hammer and is only visible when the hammer is raised.

So that's The Plan as it now stands. Any reasonable suggestions will be appreciated.
Thank you
CW
 
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Two suggestions:
First - don't over tighten the vise. You probably wouldn't appreciate an oval bore.
Second - assuming the current muzzle is cut square, why not set a combination square to the amount to be removed, index the head against the current muzzle and scribe a line across each flat. I'm thinking that should give you an exact point to dress to.
 
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