Cycling problems with M305/m14s

J

JNA

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Hey Guys,

So it has come time to almost admit defeat. I purchased a used m305 (M14s sporter) from Al Simmons about a year ago and it has been quite finicky to say the least since i bought it. I was not deterred as I bought the rifle with the full intention of customizing the hell out of it for the hopes of learning more about the series of rifles and to the limits of my own skill. When i first bought the rifle it had some ejection problems. I proceeded to then try and fix these ejection issues by adding a new spring kit. I bought a Wolfe spring kit from brownells, along with a Sadlak NM spring guide. I installed the guide as well as the hammer spring and operating spring without too much problem (ok the hammer spring was a bit heavy). However the problem has gotten significantly worse. The rifle will cycle correctly on occasion, however most of the time the rifle shoots and maybe makes a slight movement to eject but stays still. I have made sure that the gas is set correctly (facing up) as well as using different types of ammunition (so far used PRVI, Norinco and Barnaul) and had the same effect. I originally thought it was due to me taking the bolt apart (maybe incorrectly placing a part however that would not be the case as it ejects some of the time). I thought it could be the magazines so I bought USGI checkmate ones and the problem continues to persist. I even went to Hungry's clinic for a quick look over (not the shooting one just the class portion) and making sure the gas system was set up correctly (no shims, just found a better fitting gas cylinder lock). I also had some friends shoot in the hopes that I was limpwristing and they had the same problem (I hold the guns I believe correctly and firmly). The problem still exists. The only other thing i notice is that i find it very hard to cycle the bolt after I have shot the rifle and it has not ejected. Im not exactly sure what it could be, but the only options I am thinking about is that:

1) It could be the gas system itself (I ordered a national match system, but it is currently back ordered)
2) The hammer spring or other springs in combination could be too heavy for the cycle to action properly?

Anyone have any other suggestions?
 
Could you clarify slight movement to eject? Does the bolt move the rear at all or just slightly, this what I am assuming you are saying.

It is possible it is a chamber/headspace issue but you need input from someone more knowledgeable to give you guidance.
But if everything works fine with a snap cap and manually working the action, no binding and freely ejects that would be my thought, based it on it being hard to cycle the action manually after firing around.
You could try dropping a casing that failed to eject correctly in to the chamber and see if it seats correctly, or if it binds up. If it binds you know where the problem is.
 
The gas spindle is pointing Up and down which i believe is the correct position. It feels kind of loose though (not sure if that is normal).
 
I have an M305 that had similar issues. Failures to eject and to feed the next round, mostly.

I believe your "hard extraction" of a fired round is due to the bolt not moving far enough to the rear to eject, and then ramming the expanded, fired casing back into the chamber.

I purchased a used gas cylinder and piston on the EE. Once installed the rifle functioned properly. I assume the old cylinder or piston was worn out of spec and was allowing too much gas to escape.
 
rgallant said:
Could you clarify slight movement to eject? Does the bolt move the rear at all or just slightly, this what I am assuming you are saying.

It is possible it is a chamber/headspace issue but you need input from someone more knowledgeable to give you guidance.
But if everything works fine with a snap cap and manually working the action, no binding and freely ejects that would be my thought, based it on it being hard to cycle the action manually after firing around.
You could try dropping a casing that failed to eject correctly in to the chamber and see if it seats correctly, or if it binds up. If it binds you know where the problem is.
Click to expand...

[video]https://www.dropbox.com/s/o76kuug27hzk7bl/20140215_132613.mp4[/video]

[video]https://www.dropbox.com/s/dwhyuikv2sy692b/20140119_115920.mp4[/video]

I hope the videos help. I have attempted giving the rifle to someone else to see if i wasnt holding it correctly and the same problems occurred.
 
Stevo said:
I have an M305 that had similar issues. Failures to eject and to feed the next round, mostly.

I believe your "hard extraction" of a fired round is due to the bolt not moving far enough to the rear to eject, and then ramming the expanded, fired casing back into the chamber.

I purchased a used gas cylinder and piston on the EE. Once installed the rifle functioned properly. I assume the old cylinder or piston was worn out of spec and was allowing too much gas to escape.
Click to expand...

That's the exact problem I am having and the exact correction I will try to complete. Im getting a national match gas system and a sadlak piston hopefully that fixes the problem once and for all.
 
JNA said:
That's the exact problem I am having and the exact correction I will try to complete. Im getting a national match gas system and a sadlak piston hopefully that fixes the problem once and for all.
Click to expand...

Let us know how it works out. If you're interested in trying to "mix and match" OEM parts as an interim solution, you're welcome to try my used parts out.
 
Think paragraphs.
You have some kind of gas issue. The rifle feed ok? Did it ever function or did you start changing parts before you shot it? You clean it first? Three brands of ammo doing the same thing means it's not the ammo. That's one issue eliminated, at least.
Limp wristing is a pistol cycling issue. Doesn't apply to rifles. Neither does how you hold a rifle. Mind you, if you hold a .308 bolt action lightly it'll smack you, but it'll still work.
Bad headspace has nothing to do with ejection or failing to extract. Hard extractions do, but this is no extraction.
Takes a long time and a great deal of shooting to wear out the gas system parts.
Continually changing parts is just costing you money. Might be the cause too. Some of those parts require fitting. You need to figure out what's going on.
 
i have heard, though never seen, that with the over/under indexed barrels that the gas port on the barrel sometimes isnt lined up fully with the gas tube/piston. Easy enough to just unscrew the gasblock and see how the gas hole lines up, 2 min job.
Good luck.
 
You definitely have a problem with not enough gas, that's why your rifle is short-stroking. I don't believe it's cylinder or piston wear. It takes more than 10,000 rounds to wear these to the point of causing a problem. Make sure your gas plug is tight. Also, manually pull the charge handle back and lock it back. Now tilt the rifle up so that the piston moves toward the butt fully. Take a 5/64 drill bit and insert it in through the hole in the bottom of the gas cylinder. It should freely go in about 1.475" If it doesn't, you have at least a partial gas blockage. Could be that the gas hole in the barrel doesn't line up properly with the gas cylinder hole or isn't bored to the right size or the gas cut-off isn't correctly lined up. Anyway, it shouldn't be too difficult to figure out. Good luck and keep us posted.
 
sunray said:
Think paragraphs.
1. The rifle feed ok?

2. Did it ever function or did you start changing parts before you shot it?

3. You clean it first?
Click to expand...

Sorry for the delay guys, Ive been stuck with a lot of work.

1.The rifle seems to feed ok when i just cycle it regularly with the checkmate mags.

2. I bought it used and originally did not function perfectly with norc mags (but the mags had a bunch of cosmo left in them), although it would cycle more than it does now.

3. I cleaned the rifle as soon as I got it and regularly do clean and lubricate (with correct lubriplate grease) every few range visits.
 
LeftFootOfDoom said:
i have heard, though never seen, that with the over/under indexed barrels that the gas port on the barrel sometimes isnt lined up fully with the gas tube/piston. Easy enough to just unscrew the gasblock and see how the gas hole lines up, 2 min job.
Good luck.
Click to expand...

We checked indexing at Hungry's clinic and it was fine, but thanks for the suggestion :).
 
Also worth checking out if the op-rod is free from interference when in the stock and the gas port to cylinder alignment.
Because of the cold it would be worth trying the op-rod dry to see if that helps.
Soak the gas cylinder to remove all reside that can hang up the piston
 
Holleyman said:
Also worth checking out if the op-rod is free from interference when in the stock and the gas port to cylinder alignment.
Because of the cold it would be worth trying the op-rod dry to see if that helps.
Soak the gas cylinder to remove all reside that can hang up the piston
Click to expand...

I have tried the op-rod dry, but have not soaked the gas cylinder as i thought the gas system was tobe free of grease/lubricant i cleaned it out dry
 
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