CZ 22 chambers...Std or Match ?

CZ makes its barrels in the Czech Republic. All meet CIP specs. CZ makes barrels with muzzle threading for European markets and for North American markets. Chambers remain the same regardless of muzzle threading.

SAAMI specs don't concern CZ just as they don't concern other European manufacturers who make rifles with "match" chambers such as Anschutz. There's no regulation that requires North American .22LR barrels/chambers to have SAAMI specs. When they do, it's because the manufacturer chooses to follow SAAMI as a standard.

The thread, like the use of the term "match chamber" are for the American Market. I wish I could find it, but there was a statement from CZ some years ago where they stated that all CZ barrels had match chambers; this was in response to a question as to why American barrel makers had "match chambers" and CZ did not. CZ USA changed how they label and market to appeal mor to the US market. Honestly, I have seen nothing to make me believe otherwise.

Found it!!!​

From CZ: https://www.czforthosewhoknow.com/blog/2021/10/12/accuracy-comparisons-between-models/

Accuracy Comparisons Between Models​


Questions regarding accuracy comparisons between different CZ rifles are often asked. The answer is simple, all CZ rifles have the same quality premium hammer forged CZ barrel. CZ rifles have always been prized for accuracy. This is especially true in the world of rimfire competition. While the disciplines rise and fall in popularity, and the stock and barrel configurations change to meet the demands of each game, the heart of the rifle hasn’t changed. The CZ rifle barrel remains at the top of the class in the world of production rifles.
All CZ bolt action rifle barrels are lapped at the factory for accuracy, eliminating the need for a “break in” period. This being said there are several factors influencing the accuracy realized from each individual rifle.
While the barrels of both the CZ varmint and sporter weight models are of the same high quality, the varmint being the heavier and stiffer of the two is more forgiving over a wider range of loads than the thinner barreled sporter weight models. For example, given a selection of 10 different .22LR loads from various manufacturers, the varmint weight barrel will shoot to the best accuracy potential with 4 of the loads and it shoots another 3 of the loads very well. In general, the sporter weight barrel will be more sensitive to differences between the loads. Typically out of the same 10 different loads tested with the varmint weight barrel, it will only shoot at its best with 2 of the loads, while another 3 or 4 will shoot acceptably. Typically there will be a few loads each individual rifle really likes and a few the rifle really doesn’t like, with the rest falling somewhere in the middle. By starting with a quality action and premium barrel, the odds are stacked in your favor, making the search for the best accuracy combination easier.
 
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Is a match chamber really a better choice?
Are their more difficulties involved when choosing ammo?
are they worth the trouble overall?
PRS rifle

When you want the best performance possible, a match chamber is always the better choice. You won't be able to shoot stingers or certain bulk ammo varieties that have a longer base to ogive than typically found in standard velocity ammo which you'll be using for PRS. Other than that, there's no "trouble" involved with match chambers.

Nothing in the rimfire system is "more important" than any other component. They all go together hand in hand, playing their own roles which combine to deliver accuracy equal to the sum of all the components. How can ammo be "the most important"? The best lot will shoot terribly out of a crappy barrel, the poor quality of the barrel overrules the ammo, isn't the barrel more important then? The best barrel will shoot crappy ammo like, well, crap. Gee, I guess ammo is the most important now? Good ammo in a good barrel that the barrel doesn't "like", poor results, huh, so now I think the pairing of the ammo to barrel is the most important factor. Oh, you can put a tuner on and make the barrel like the ammo, so tuning is the "most important"!

No, a major deficiency in any factor over-rides the quality of all the others. The closer to "perfect" everything in the system is, the better the results. A fault in any part, and everything has faults on a variable scale of severity, only degrades the maximum accuracy possible from the "perfect" standard.

Thanks for finding that from CZ Meroh, I was looking for it a little while back but had no luck.
 
The thread, like the use of the term "match chamber" are for the American Market. I wish I could find it, but there was a statement from CZ some years ago where they stated that all CZ barrels had match chambers; this was in response to a question as to why American barrel makers had "match chambers" and CZ did not. CZ USA changed how they label and market to appeal mor to the US market. Honestly, I have seen nothing to make me believe otherwise.

With regard to .22LR the term "match chamber" generally refers to chambers smaller in dimension to "standard" chambers (if the use of this term is permitted). More specifically, it usually refers to custom chambers used in custom barrels and these were being produced no later than the late 1920s. Americans were shooting custom .22LR rifles more than anywhere else.

The term match chamber isn't commonly used in the most prominent books available in the 1920s on the subject of small bore rifle shooting. In fact chambers are not the subject of much attention other than to note that their dimensions were as tight as possible. Among the most sought after rifles produced commercially was the early Winchester 52s, first available soon after WWI. Apparently these had chambers somewhat "tighter" than many other .22LR rifles.

It's in the U.S. that small bore shooters made the most frequent use of .22LR custom barrels and custom chamberings. The history of "match chambers" for .22LR is richest south of the border.
 
How can ammo be "the most important"?
because its the one you have the most control over, with an assumption that everything else in the system is functional. Majority of people are not going to swap out a barrel or bed their chassis. They can however switch brands and try 15 different types of ammo in an hour to see what could be the best.
 
because its the one you have the most control over, with an assumption that everything else in the system is functional. Majority of people are not going to swap out a barrel or bed their chassis. They can however switch brands and try 15 different types of ammo in an hour to see what could be the best.
I disagree. Your personal skill is the one thing that you have the most control over and the ability to improve it through practice. All too often have I seen the indiscriminate buying of accessories to "improve my shooting" when they should have been buying ammo and spending time at the range shooting until they can't get any better. By then you will know what will help; trigger, better bipod, bag-rider, scope, chassis improvements, etc. etc.

Likewise going out right away and buying a brick of each ammo that is over $20/box when you have not developed your own skill set, is pi**ing into the wind.

Shoot, shoot and shoot some more and let your rifle and your targets tell you what they need. Most times for the first year or so, they tell you that they need a better operator.

I still go out and shoot 5 -10 boxes of practice ammo each time I am at the range. (Seriously). Shoot until it is as natural as breathing.
 
because its the one you have the most control over, with an assumption that everything else in the system is functional. Majority of people are not going to swap out a barrel or bed their chassis. They can however switch brands and try 15 different types of ammo in an hour to see what could be the best.
That makes it the factor which one can most readily effect change in, but how does that make it any more important than another factor? Do we really have that much control over the ammo? Say I determined that 38.75 grain bullets with 1.53 grains of powder ABC primed with Eley Prime soaked in hog's fat lube was the best recipe for my rifle, where can I get that? We buy what's available and hope that what the rifle likes is a consistent well made lot too, it's still a lottery. You can improve your odds if a testing facility is available for your use.

Most people depend on others that know what they're doing to build them a capable rifle, they just do the shooting. You're stuck with the barrel you get unless you go through the effort and expense of changing it. The barrel on your rifle determines the best results that you can achieve, this is now set. All the other factors, like selecting the best ammo for it and tuning are what goes into realizing the barrel's full potential, but the ammo or tuning won't make this barrel any better than it is already.
 
That makes it the factor which one can most readily effect change in, but how does that make it any more important than another factor? Do we really have that much control over the ammo? Say I determined that 38.75 grain bullets with 1.53 grains of powder ABC primed with Eley Prime soaked in hog's fat lube was the best recipe for my rifle, where can I get that? We buy what's available and hope that what the rifle likes is a consistent well made lot too, it's still a lottery. You can improve your odds if a testing facility is available for your use.

Most people depend on others that know what they're doing to build them a capable rifle, they just do the shooting. You're stuck with the barrel you get unless you go through the effort and expense of changing it. The barrel on your rifle determines the best results that you can achieve, this is now set. All the other factors, like selecting the best ammo for it and tuning are what goes into realizing the barrel's full potential, but the ammo or tuning won't make this barrel any better than it is already.
Remember also that there are differences in lot numbers for ammo also. The best shooting ammo this week might shoot like garbage the next time you order a case. You, the shooter, are the most controllable component in the equation.
 
I disagree. Your personal skill is the one thing that you have the most control over and the ability to improve it through practice. All too often have I seen the indiscriminate buying of accessories to "improve my shooting" when they should have been buying ammo and spending time at the range shooting until they can't get any better. By then you will know what will help; trigger, better bipod, bag-rider, scope, chassis improvements, etc. etc.

Likewise going out right away and buying a brick of each ammo that is over $20/box when you have not developed your own skill set, is pi**ing into the wind.

Shoot, shoot and shoot some more and let your rifle and your targets tell you what they need. Most times for the first year or so, they tell you that they need a better operator.

I still go out and shoot 5 -10 boxes of practice ammo each time I am at the range. (Seriously). Shoot until it is as natural as breathing.
sure, but if you're already shooting consistent ( 1.5 moa or less) or using a bipod AND rear bag then yknow its time for ammo selection - Im fully aware after attending my first PRS match that as intimidating and kitted out a guys gun is coming out of these, he can also go 1/10 on a 25y target with a MDT chassis, Tuner, $1500 scope and even an electronic level for a cherry on top.

If you know your reticle is all over the place before you pull the trigger, youre not even going to think about if its the ammo's fault.

If a brand new gun is shooting 2"+ at 50y, its the ammo and not you.
 
If a brand new gun is shooting 2"+ at 50y, its the ammo and not you.
Well... If the ammo is Winchester Wildcats then that is plausible. Training ammo like SK Rifle Match, RWS Rifle Match and Eley Club giving 2" groups at 50 yards, you got yourself a dud barrel.
 
Match chambers are usually a bit tighter, dimensionally than standard, off the shelf factory rifles. Doesn't matter if it's a rimfire cartridge or a centerfire cartridge.

There is a huge lesson to be learned from muzzle loading, black powder shooters.

When I started shooting black powder, I really wasn't expecting much accuracy. That was over 50 years ago and I still have my first muzzle loader, a Lyman Plains Rifle, chambered for 50 cal. It was sitting on the shelf at the local gun shop, and had a big red SALE tag on it. $50. That was cheap, even for those days.

It had two things against it as far as the local muzzle stuffer crowd went, first it was made for LYMAN, by Pedersoli in Italy (heaven forbid) and it had a 50 caliber bore, instead of 54 or 58. There were lots of commercial 54 and 58 caliber bullets and round balls for sale, but nary a 50 cal to be found.

That means I had to cast my own balls and bullets. Easy right. NOT.

The aluminum 50 cal round ball mold threw .490 +_ .002, depending on lead mix and with the off the shelf patches, which were quite thin.

It didn't take long to see the accuracy I was getting at all distances, was mediocre at best and no matter which load or type of BP I used, it wasn't going to get better.

Chris Wilcox, from Wilcox Gunworks, took me under his wing and explained a few things to me why my perfectly good rifle was not shooting well.

The patched round ball wasn't fitting the bore from what he could see, so we double patched a ball and shot it. HUGE DIFFERENCE. The ball went right to point of aim at 50 yds. So did the next one and the rest followed.

Now double patching made thing very difficult, to get the ball started down the muzzle, then tamp it down, no matter how wet the patch were with Spit Patch. So, I ordered a new round ball mold and a maxi ball mold that would need to be engraved to properly fit the bore.

The bore measured .508 and I ordered a .500 round ball mold and a bunch of "alter linen" which is a very uniform .015 thickness to cut into patches. I still use those molds but if I ever run out of alter linen, it may be tough to find. Accuracy is very good.

Now, that was off topic, but not quite. The lesson there was simple, IF YOU WANT GOOD ACCURACY FROM ANY FIREARM, EVERYTHING MUST FIT PROPERLY.

With a muzzle loader, the patched ball or maxi ball is already engraved into the rifling, so you don't have to worry about it being straight.

As soon as a cartridge, is introduced into a chamber, connected to the rifling by a throat and leade, things change a lot.

If you have a chamber cut on the maximum spec, then other things come into play, such as rim thickness of the cartridge and how much cant the case has in the chamber, which will directly effect how the bullet engages the leade and feeds into the rifling.

If you have a minimum spec or on mean spec chamber, there is less cant and the bullet engages the lead much more evenly. Sometimes, not always, this will make accuracy much better, even if the bore is a bit on the large side. It's why some off shelf rifles shoot incredibly well and the next one is mediocre.

Handloaders can alleviate this issue by partial neck sizing, but rimfire shooters don't have this luxury.

So, if your 22rf, or whatever rf round you choose has a "tight or match" chamber it's far more likely to shoot well than a standard off the shelf rifle.

I know a couple of shooters that have special reamers made for the match ammunition they like to shoot. The chambers are so snug, some standard off the shelf ammunition will not chamber easily, if at all.
 
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If you know your reticle is all over the place before you pull the trigger, youre not even going to think about if its the ammo's fault.

If a brand new gun is shooting 2"+ at 50y, its the ammo and not you.
Funny you should mention that...

What if you don't know your reticle is all over the place... and it is?

In my last three trips to the range, I ran into newer members struggling to get their rifles on paper. All three were brand new CF rifles (one .270, one a .243 and the other a 6.5 creed. 2 of the three had lose scopes, one of those had a small 3-9 scope on which he had a 30 MOA rail which made it impossible for him to zero his scope, the third guy just did not know what he was doing.

Interestingly, all three were going to "throw more money" at their problems by buying this, that, and the other thing accessories that they read about. These three examples, while seemingly extreme to us who have been life time shooters, are fast becoming the norm. These guys need to address everything, including their inexperience, before worrying about tuning loads. I was able to get all three on paper in short order, the guy with the 30 MOA scope rail, I had to shim the front of his scope up in the ring with two layers of .22 ammo box card stock, bore sighted looking through the barrel, fired one round, and it was in the black at 25 meters. Told him to take the rail off and replace it with one with 0 MOA.

To your point, the precision .22 bolt rifle is more a phenomenon among the more experienced shooters, and yes, we should be able to get the hardware sorted out. I don't get out as often as I like to, and it has taken me over a year to bring everything together to where I am now playing with different ammo to fully optimize what, for me, is already an optimum platform.

Further to the topic of this thread, "match" chamber or not, there are other things that can affect a barrel. We used to hear so much about the "crown", now is seems to hardly get mentioned; granted, CZ, Anschutz and Custom barrels are built with more care than many domestic factory rifles.
 
Meroh, I had a similar time last Sunday 6/08. 2 "Brand New Shooters" with brand new rifles from BP - "Bore sighted by BP". A 10/22 synth that had the scope about 5* canted and too close to get the rifle to his shoulder due to eye-box length. Thanks BP ! Second was a Rem 783 'package scope' ( w-never heard of brand) that was set up at BP too (they were buddies that bought rifles the same day) This scope was also canted about 5* And the ring-caps were Loose on both rings! The 783 had 15-rounds of a box 'Wasted' since he was getting 6-8" Group at 100. After I adjusted Both scopes the 22 was getting 3/4" at 25 and the 783 was 1.5" at 100. As I said, these were "BNS" who just got their PALs a few days before and Never fired a gun At ALL . . . Immigrants . . .
PS - Luckily there were No other shooters since the club has 'low attendance' at the range, mostly hunters zeroing Or Plinkers. Lots of trips down-range to 'look at the holes'. I gave each shooter a bunch of $-store 3/4" sticky-dots so the could get 'more targets' on the 5-bull pre-rolleds.
 
Shooter and conditions aside (as in a testing facility tunnel) there are a number of things that can make for a dud barrel that are not related to the chamber. There are probably more "dud" barrels than many shooters might like to think. No chamber, however well made and regardless of it's dimensions, will fix it.

These below average barrels are seen more frequently with mass produced factory barrels but still occur with custom barrels. Without testing they can be difficult to identify.

What makes a barrel below average? Factors include metallurgical inconsistency from breech to muzzle, bore diameter variation through the length of barrel, and bore concentricity (roundness) variation along the bore. None of these can be seen even with the most thorough use of a bore scope. Another important factor is the characteristics and consistency of the rifling. Some irregularities here may be detected by using a bore scope, some may not. Yet another factor, is the crown. Some are not as good as others, even on new rifles.

In the end, with shooter and conditions aside, there are a number of important things that must come together to make a rifle/barrel perform well, including barrel quality, ammo, and chamber. None of these can make up for deficiencies in the others.
 
There are only two downsides that I can think of with a "match" chamber in a bolt gun.
First, it may not be able to extract a live round from the chamber. Newer styles of "match" chamber have more gentle leade angles. The old SAAMI Match chamber has a 5° leade, and is very unforgiving in this regard.
Second, they need to be kept clean to shoot to their potential. Carbon buildup can cause problems quickly in a tight chamber, whereas sporting chambers have lots of room for fouling.

Beyond that, there's very little reason to ever get a sporting chamber in a bolt gun that will be shot for accuracy.

I do remember reading somewhere that CZ's "standard" chamber was actually pretty tight, compared to the old SAAMI sporting.
 
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The leade angle in SAAMI chambers (sporting and match) is 5 degrees. The leade angle in CIP chambers is also 5 degrees.

CZ follows CIP regulations. Not all chambers that meet CIP specs are the same, but they must not be any smaller than the minimum dimensions specified.

The SAAMI .22LR Sporting chamber dimensions are greater than those of CIP. There aren't many (any?) rifles with the .22LR SAAMI Sporting chamber that are considered to be genuine target rifles, even those with the word "Precision" in the name.
 
If you shave 0.015" off the breech face of a standard chamber CZ barrel, you get about 0.020" of engagement of the bullet into the rifling. The standard chambers must be cut to just "kiss" the bullet, 0.005" of engagement isn't something you're going to see or feel.
 
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