CZ 452/453/455 Varmint differences? Which scope to buy?
- Thread starter CUSTOM441
- Start date
So...take out the grub screws and everything should be fine..?
You are correct, but for someone asking about the differences between pretty well-known models, I didn't think I'd need to go that far down the explanation road.
I didn't know the 452, 17M2s weren't threaded...that's surprising. If that's the case, I'm glad I stopped short of having one imported! (which I almost did)The crossfire is not a great choice at $300, as it's only a .22 scope in my opinion. So, kind of limiting. Spend a bit more and get a better AO scope. The Diamondback 4-12AO is pretty good if you can find one.
This one would be pretty good for $200:
http://frontierfirearms.ca/bushnell-3-12x40-bdc-reticle/
or this one
http://frontierfirearms.ca/bushnell-trophy-xtreme-4-16x-44mm/
for $270, but it's a little heavy.
Oh, and which cz? I really like the 28 inch barrelled 452 ultra lux because of the way it points offhand (more than the american), but they are all great. The best way to decide is to try them all out.
This one would be pretty good for $200:
http://frontierfirearms.ca/bushnell-3-12x40-bdc-reticle/
or this one
http://frontierfirearms.ca/bushnell-trophy-xtreme-4-16x-44mm/
for $270, but it's a little heavy.
Oh, and which cz? I really like the 28 inch barrelled 452 ultra lux because of the way it points offhand (more than the american), but they are all great. The best way to decide is to try them all out.
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So...take out the grub screws and everything should be fine..?
You are correct, but for someone asking about the differences between pretty well-known models, I didn't think I'd need to go that far down the explanation road.
Not to belabour the point, but it's important to note that grub screws are not the same as pins. And a pinned barrel is not the same as a slip fit barrel. The former is not easily removed, while the latter is. The terms are distinct and not synonymous and it would be a disservice to readers unfamiliar with the terms to leave the impression that 455 barrels are pinned to the receiver.
Unique? Maybe... I only have one to go by... but it was imported from a special run of HM2's, so I doubt that it is the only one... the company had made many special orders of HM2's.
P.S - I am not "contending"... I am stating what my rifle is... as opposed to "reading" RFC threads... and despite your vast internet knowledge... you cannot make a statement about the design of "all others," because I doubt that you have examined "all others."
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Your mind is made up; suit yourself and believe what you like. CZ 452's in 17HM2 are pinned.
It is not what I "believe"... I HAVE ONE... AND IT IS THREADED!
I have owned close to 30 CZ rimfire rifles, three of which were 17 HM2's... and still own six CZ 452's and 453's... how many CZ 452 HM2's have you owned? I'm guessing, none... you are just online reading the experiences of others.
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You've guessed correctly that I don't own one, but that does not prevent me or anyone from learning more about them. At the same time, people often own things without knowing everything about them.
In any case, we may be talking about apples and oranges. A very well respected CZ smith who posts on RFC under the name djdilliodon is unequivocal that the CZ 452 American in 17 HM2 is pinned. That's not in question. Unfortunately it is less clear whether the 452 Varmint in that caliber is pinned or threaded. I don't know and can't find corroborating information either way. If it is threaded and you have a CZ 452 Varmint in 17HM2 then I owe you an apology. And with that, I humbly withdraw from this bone of contention.
Thanks for the suggestions! Everyone says to stay away from Vortex but no one is telling me why. Like I said, I've had good experiences with them in the past. That said, I'm not sold on them and I'm open to suggestions! Couldn't agree more on having an adjustable parallax, that is a MUST. This rifle will mostly be used off the bench, but I may do some plinking and small game hunting eventually, so while I can appreciate having a 6-18x scope, I feel starting at 6x may be limiting myself. Is 4-18x a thing? Am I making this up?
Also, I'm leaning more towards the 452 just given that the barrel is threaded to the receiver and I have no interest in swapping out for a .17HMR... thanks for the clarification!
My rifle is a CZ American chambered for .17 HM2 and it has a threaded barrel not a pinned barrel. I was on RFC for years before ever coming over to CGN, and I imported this rifle from an RFC supporting business that did multiple runs of CZ 452 Americans in .17 HM2 due to popular demand. I can only speak for the rifle I received as to the barrel to receiver connection, but I would imagine the rest of the run was constructed in the same manner.
What I don't like about my Crossfire II is the optical quality, I'm not sure how to explain it but after spending time behind some higher quality glass I just notice things about the Vortex that annoy me now, and I would not buy one again. I'm only keeping it for now because I can't justify upgrading it given that the rifle it is assigned to is not used the most.
I consider 18x magnification the bare minimum for any target shooting with serious intentions, 24x preferred and more than that is a bonus
(you can never have too much). I can see .17 HMR holes at 100 yards with 18x. 6-18x is common, as with 6-24x and 8-32x, but that's not to say a 4-18x doesn't exist, I'm just not aware of one off the top of my head. Sightron SII scopes also give pretty good quality for the price, though they are a fair bump up ($) from a Crossfire II.Noting you say you want a "precision" rifle, what kind of group sizes are you looking to get at, oh... 50 yards, for example? What will you do if the rifle does not deliver this? Would you put a custom barrel on it? It is much easier and less expensive to outfit a 455 with a match barrel than it is a 452, particularly since Canada doesn't have anyone who identifies as a rimfire specialist, or CZ specialist for that matter. I could suggest a gunsmith who did a great job re-fitting a Lilja barrel to my Remington 597, that takes care of the barrel fitment to a 452, but CZ's often need bedding and tuning work (ignition system, primarily) to get the best results and you are on your own here in Canada for that. I'm sure you could find someone who can do the bedding work, I just can't give you a suggestion since I do that stuff myself.
Lilja has now addressed the previously mentioned headspace issue regarding drop-in barrels by turning the shanks extra long, and including a shim kit to perfectly fit the barrel to any 455 action, but doing this properly requires some above average know-how (they go into detail on their website, so I won't repeat it here). Lilja has also (wisely) scrapped the Bentz chamber and is cutting their Lilja Match 2 chamber for their in-stock barrels. They are also doing a standard breech face, since the cone breech idea didn't work out so well...
The current offering for a 455 drop-in barrel has never been better, and is the easiest way to take a 455 to another level, especially compared to doing the same with a 452.
Vortex? I have experience with the Crossfires, including one that had to go back for warranty service. Glass quality wasn't there anyway, so when their warranty center called (VERY professional/prompt) they offered to send me the same model back. After some back and forth...telling them my reservations about trusting another Crossfire, they agreed to send me a Diamondback 4-12 AO instead. Still not a stellar scope, but a big upgrade from the Crossfire and it worked just fine. Concurrently, I had a Viper HS 4-16x44 on my .223 varmint gun and that scope was pretty decent. Used that for several years until I tried a Sightron SIII. Night and day, the Sightron was like HDTV compared to the Viper HS which until that point...I thought was an awfully good scope. That experience prompted me to try the Sightron S1 for my next rimfire/budget-sensitive scope purchase, and it's been great so far. So, with that in mind...I feel compelled to suggest scopes other than the Crossfire, simply because scopes like the Viper HS (WAY better than it) aren't even the best scope you can get in THAT price range. Same proved to be true for the Crossfire. At least in my opinion.
I have a Leupold 6-18x40 with AO (focus down to roughly 22 yards) on my 452 Varmint at the moment. Great scope, but note that it won't focus clearly and correct parallax at 20 yds.
The 452 Varmint has been impressive for a $600 rifle. I still have a 455 American, but I think it'll be the last 455 I buy. It's accurate in it's own right, but can't stay with the 452.
If you plan to carry the rifle at all in a hunting context, I'd suggest you buy something lighter to hunt with. None of the CZ Varmints even approach what I'd call a hunting weight. The term boat anchor comes to mind, in fact.
The 452 Varmint has been impressive for a $600 rifle. I still have a 455 American, but I think it'll be the last 455 I buy. It's accurate in it's own right, but can't stay with the 452.
If you plan to carry the rifle at all in a hunting context, I'd suggest you buy something lighter to hunt with. None of the CZ Varmints even approach what I'd call a hunting weight. The term boat anchor comes to mind, in fact.
Great feedback, thank you! Will definitely take a look at the Sightron's since a lot of people seem to be recommending them.
It will primarily be a bench/target rifle, and may be taken on the odd hunting trip one day but I can't see myself using this as an off-hand hunting rifle.
I am very pleased with a Sightron III 10-50X60 with fine crosshair and target dot reticle on a CZ 453 Lux. Can always be dialed down if you need less magnification. I saw a fly on the target
Have a Leupold VXII 4-12X44 AO fine crosshair reticle with CZ rings on a 452 American. Barely used it and really don't need it since my interest is in benchrest shooting. This combo is great for hunting but a little under powered scope for my eyesight.
Have a Leupold VXII 4-12X44 AO fine crosshair reticle with CZ rings on a 452 American. Barely used it and really don't need it since my interest is in benchrest shooting. This combo is great for hunting but a little under powered scope for my eyesight.
Reviving this thread.
I checked out the Crossfire II 4-12x40mm AO BDC yesterday in store. I have no experience with expensive glass so I can't make the comparison, but for what I want this rifle to do and to get me started within my budget this scope seems like it would be decent. I came back to this comment and looked further into Sightron and discovered the SIH Tac 4-12x40 AO HHR. It still has the adjustable objective, and I like the tactical style turrets (no messing with caps). I know it's not an SIII, but does anyone have experience with this optic?
