CZ 455-17 VS Savage B17............ what gives????

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stilly74

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ok thought id pick some ones brain on this.

I have a CZ 455 in a Evolution stock. I have a YoDave trigger in it, about a 2lbs pull and it's glass bedded

I have a Savage B17 in synthetic stock, with a little home done trigger work, about a 2 lbs trigger pull and that's it

Both are heavy barrels. Both have same exact scopes.

Tried them both out today at 50 yards and the Savage completely blew the CZ away on accuracy. 5 shots with the Savage had a group no bigger than a dime. The CZ with best 5 shot group was about 1.5 inches maybe a little bigger

Now I know different ammo works better in different guns but will changing ammo in the CZ make that much difference ?
Both were shooting Hornady 17 grain
 
I bought a savage heavy barrel b series 22 mag ,,, I have shot 5 shot 1'' groups at 100 yards ,,, challenged my buddy with his cz 22 mag to a shoot off he would not take me up on it ,, The savage b series is a very accurate rimfire ,, love the new stock and rotary mag
 
FLHTCUI said:
Oh man the CZ fans heads are about to explode....
Sell the CZ if it does not suit your needs, eazee peezez.
Or you can ask the Sciencetician if you prefer.
FLHTCUI
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lmao! For real!

Honestly its a crap shoot with ammo in barrel for small bore. Let alone the inconsistencies in 17hmr.

One groups is not what I would call a definite difference. 5 groups would be good.

I used 4 different types of ammo out of the same gun (savage) at 50 yards I had some well under half an inch some over one inch.(consistently, all ammo had 5 groups of 5 shot to determin what was the best in the rifle) Gota find the ammo it likes.

I personally think savage makes great rim fire rifles.
 
A .17 should be laser-like at 50 yards, so something ain't right here. Cover all the basics, take the action out of the stock and loosen then re-torque the barrel grub screws to 30-35 inch-lbs. Put the rifle back together and torque the action screws to 20-24 inch-lbs. Check every screw on the scope rings for tightness. Clean the barrel very thoroughly with a bronze brush. Take apart the bolt, clean all the parts and lightly oil with thin weight oil such as Rem-Oil. Finally, test some 20gr ammo and another type of 17gr ammo. If it still doesn't shoot consistently under 1 inch at 50 yards, there's a more serious problem with it. A decent .17 HMR can do 1-1.5" at 100 yards or better, what you're getting at 50 is just plain bad. See what happens when you give it a once-over, then we can talk further.
 
The Evolution stock might have inspirational looks, but there are knowledgeable fellows on RFC, such as CZ gunsmith djdilliodon, who say that stock can be a challenging one with which to shoot well. In any case, Rabid's advice is worth looking into.
 
All screws were torqued to similar specs that you have listed. Scope screws were checked and have lock tight on them. I never scrubbed the barrel, only use a bore snake to clean it. I'm afraid of scoring the barrel if I use a cleaning rod. Only explanation I can think of is trying different ammo

I completely feel comfortable with the stock on the CZ more than I do with the Savage. I find the Savage butt stock almost to short
 
Well, I've never heard/read the term "fan head" but if that's a variation of "fan boy"...I guess I'd fall into that category. Without getting into my reservations about the 455, or, my dislike of the "evolution" stocks...the first thing anyone should do with rimfires (ANY rimfires) is to test as many ammo types as possible. My CZ452 wouldn't shoot 17gr. Hornady ammo worth a damn....but printed the smallest groups I've ever gotten (to this day) using Hornady 20gr. HPs. That gun had no trigger work...just bone-stock. I've had 3 Savage 17HMRs over the years...and none of them were as accurate as my CZ was. My Marlin 917 with a Rifle Basix...my only HMR now...comes awfully close, and does it WITH the 17gr. Hornady. I believe in the accuracy potential of guns rolling out of Savage, and I still have/love/shoot my heavy barrel Savage .223. That gun is a laser.

You owe it to yourself to try a few ammo types, but I'd steer clear of Winchester...and personally, Remington too. I've always found that for HMR in a decent gun, you needn't look further than Hornady and CCI.
 
stilly74 said:
All screws were torqued to similar specs that you have listed. Scope screws were checked and have lock tight on them. I never scrubbed the barrel, only use a bore snake to clean it. I'm afraid of scoring the barrel if I use a cleaning rod. Only explanation I can think of is trying different ammo

I completely feel comfortable with the stock on the CZ more than I do with the Savage. I find the Savage butt stock almost to short
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You could read up on Dewey nylon coated rods.
h ttps://deweyrods.com/product-category/gun-cleaning-individual-rods/nylon-coated/
( you will have to remove the space in the https )
 
Did you get the rifle new, or used? The boresnake just isn't going to cut it for cleaning, and a quality rod used with a bore guide won't harm your barrel. If you got the rifle used, I'd give it a really, really deep cleaning, and since everything else checks out, test some 20gr and another type of 17gr ammo and see where you're at. I've not known a good rifle to shoot 1.5" + at 50 yards then suddenly "like" something else better and become a one-holer, a good rifle would tend to shoot ammo it doesn't "like" in the range of 1/2"-1" at 50 yards, then sub 1/2" as steady as you can hold with ammo it likes. It sounds like there is an underlying issue in the gun. +1 on the tip to avoid Winchester ammo. CCI makes Hornady ammo under contract, they might even do Federal as well but don't hold me to it, but stick with ammo from those 3.

After a good cleaning and testing of a couple more ammos, if results are still 1"+ the troubleshooting will start to get a lot more technical. Save a couple fired cases to cut in half and inspect the rim crush from the firing pin. What do the groupings look like? As in, do they spread vertical, horizontal, or random? (pics help).

grauhanen said:
The Evolution stock might have inspirational looks, but there are knowledgeable fellows on RFC, such as CZ gunsmith djdilliodon, who say that stock can be a challenging one with which to shoot well.
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For context, DJ does custom builds that he guarantees to shoot in the 0.2's or better at 50 yards, and I've never taken his remarks about the Evo stock to imply that it is so difficult to shoot with one that the results will be 1"+, more like 0.3's, 0.4's, 0.5's if you don't know how to adapt to the stock to get the best results out of it, but for his builds he recommends stocks that most people would have no issues using, a bit of a Cover Your @$$ tactic so people don't come back saying their build doesn't shoot 0.2's like he promised, if you ask me. DJ also says to throw the factory American stock in the fire if you want accuracy, but we know some people can shoot those well. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
 
No doubt there are many shooters who shoot very well and without issue with the Boyds Evolution stock. Nevertheless, for dj's criticisms of the evo stock referred to above, here are some examples of what the CZ "master" himself says about it with the CZ 455:

djdilliodon said:
In my experience the evo stocks tend to be more hold sensitive on a 455 than any other stock. Even fully bedded a tight hold has been needed to get the best groups. I'm sure some of them aren't but I haven't been lucky enough to see it yet.
Click to expand...

djdilliodon said:
The boyds evolution is probably one of the worst stocks you can use for benchrest style shooting. They don’t play very nice in a front and rear rest and can be one of the most hold sensitive.
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If your rifle isn't hold sensitive, or you're not shooting from the bench, perhaps the Boyds Evo stock will produce desirable results.
 
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RabidM4U5 said:
Did you get the rifle new, or used? The boresnake just isn't going to cut it for cleaning, and a quality rod used with a bore guide won't harm your barrel. If you got the rifle used, I'd give it a really, really deep cleaning, and since everything else checks out, test some 20gr and another type of 17gr ammo and see where you're at. I've not known a good rifle to shoot 1.5" + at 50 yards then suddenly "like" something else better and become a one-holer, a good rifle would tend to shoot ammo it doesn't "like" in the range of 1/2"-1" at 50 yards, then sub 1/2" as steady as you can hold with ammo it likes. It sounds like there is an underlying issue in the gun. +1 on the tip to avoid Winchester ammo. CCI makes Hornady ammo under contract, they might even do Federal as well but don't hold me to it, but stick with ammo from those 3.

After a good cleaning and testing of a couple more ammos, if results are still 1"+ the troubleshooting will start to get a lot more technical. Save a couple fired cases to cut in half and inspect the rim crush from the firing pin. What do the groupings look like? As in, do they spread vertical, horizontal, or random? (pics help).



For context, DJ does custom builds that he guarantees to shoot in the 0.2's or better at 50 yards, and I've never taken his remarks about the Evo stock to imply that it is so difficult to shoot with one that the results will be 1"+, more like 0.3's, 0.4's, 0.5's if you don't know how to adapt to the stock to get the best results out of it, but for his builds he recommends stocks that most people would have no issues using, a bit of a Cover Your @$$ tactic so people don't come back saying their build doesn't shoot 0.2's like he promised, if you ask me. DJ also says to throw the factory American stock in the fire if you want accuracy, but we know some people can shoot those well. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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It's a brand new rifle. Have about 150 rounds through it now
 
I have 5 .22s ,, was up to 8 at one point.. every one preferred a different brand of ammo so I kept those brands in stock.. My CZ 452 Luxe prefers aguilla subsonic, Buckmark rifle for some unexplainable reason loves cci stingers the best,,, ECT,, ECT,,
 
Well was able to get out and try some different ammo. Turns out the CZ hates Hornady shells. Got very good grouping with CCI A17 and even better with Federal V Shok . Still need to do more testing but at 50 yards with a good side wind was still able to get approximately 3/4" with 10 shots. Was cold in the wind so was rushing a bit as well.

I did glass bed the CZ but with the Evolution stock, would it be a good idea to maybe glass bed the first 1 to 1.5 inches of the barrel? Right now it's totally flouting but see others that glass bed in full stocks seem to glass bed the first bit of the barrel as well.

Next question is, would it also be a good idea to pillar bed the CZ as well? Trying to gain as much accuracy as possible
 
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