When I got a cold air intake put on my car by the dealer, after driving around for awhile something didn't sound right. Opened the hood and the coupling for the intake pieces had separated! Something so simple the dealer couldn't get right. I'm a want it done right do it yourself kinda guy. My rifle my problem let me worry about arguing to get it fixed. I certainly learned a lot here even if it's the hard way it's not bad knowledge. Next time I get a gun shooting like this I'll know there's nothing user end I can do to fix it.
CZ 455 Canadian Bedding Report *Update w/bore scope pics*
- Thread starter RabidM4U5
- Start date
Mumbles Marble Mouth
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Lower Mainland
Most mechanics these days are dumber than a monkey. I bought a used truck from the dealership. They replaced the CV joints on the truck before selling it. However on the ride home, the truck suddenly began to lean to the left. The dumb#### they had working on it didn't remember to do the simplest thing and re torque the torsion bar on the drivers side. Stuff like that I wouldn't return. Like a gun with a loose grip. But a full on rebuild of anything, I would return it. I understand what you mean though about arguing to get it fixed. The majority of the warranty centers look for every reason they can to deny you which can be a pain and may make you want to figure out a way to fix it yourself. Hopefully you get it figured out with that CZ as they really are an enjoyable rifle to shoot.
Yes they are, I am otherwise very pleased with the rifle in all other aspects. I've got a backup plan in the works if CZ lets me down on the warranty. There will be a happy ending to this thread one way or another. It may be awhile before I post about it again with an update.
So I brought it up to Grech Outdoors last weekend and they had a look at it under warranty. They said the head space was a little loose, didn't close on a no-go gauge but still on the loose end. If my plastigage measurements are correct from before and after they took about 0.002" off the head space. Gave me two targets they test fired with CCI standard velocity, 1" and 3/4" groups "passed". Ok looks promising I didn't get groups below an inch with CCI, but I know two groups hardly tells the story with this rifle.
Ran through the SK Magazine experiment with it and aside from one group, all were under an inch. Hmm ok looks good, not great but meets manufacturers spec.
Did the wet then dry patch clean and tried SK + and well well isn't the rifle back to it's old antics.... arrrgh. 50% of the groups "fail" and go wild.
Clean, on to SK Rifle Match and again 50% of the groups "fail" 1"-1.5"
I shoot another box of SK+ without cleaning after the previous box. Shaved 0.1" off the average and 40% of the groups "fail" 1"-1.8" and with one group at 0.997" it was a hair away from 50% fail rate.
Rem/Eley Target 70% "fail" and this stuff is not "that" bad ammo it's never over an inch out of my Savage.
Aguila Standard Velocity 70% "fail" now going up to 2.3"
Hold yer horses! Fiocchi down the middle only had half a box but thems be some good groups! SK Magazine down the left and right doing terribly (wasn't it much better out of a fresh clean barrel??) So... Ammo picky to the extreme or only shoots one box of ammo well from a clean barrel and patching isn't enough to restore it to that state? Seems to be similar to my other new rifle the weatherby.
Ran through the SK Magazine experiment with it and aside from one group, all were under an inch. Hmm ok looks good, not great but meets manufacturers spec.
Did the wet then dry patch clean and tried SK + and well well isn't the rifle back to it's old antics.... arrrgh. 50% of the groups "fail" and go wild.
Clean, on to SK Rifle Match and again 50% of the groups "fail" 1"-1.5"
I shoot another box of SK+ without cleaning after the previous box. Shaved 0.1" off the average and 40% of the groups "fail" 1"-1.8" and with one group at 0.997" it was a hair away from 50% fail rate.
Rem/Eley Target 70% "fail" and this stuff is not "that" bad ammo it's never over an inch out of my Savage.
Aguila Standard Velocity 70% "fail" now going up to 2.3"
Hold yer horses! Fiocchi down the middle only had half a box but thems be some good groups! SK Magazine down the left and right doing terribly (wasn't it much better out of a fresh clean barrel??) So... Ammo picky to the extreme or only shoots one box of ammo well from a clean barrel and patching isn't enough to restore it to that state? Seems to be similar to my other new rifle the weatherby.
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I think I finally have a diagnosis for this rifle, extreme fouling. I believe it is actually an accurate rifle but fouls so quickly I can't get halfway through a box of 50 before it goes wild. At home I really worked at it with a bronze brush and shot this for the first group of the day. I brought the brush to the range and was able to settle it down with 50 strokes every time it went wild but I'm fighting an uphill battle with the brush it takes so much labor to clean it out and I'm falling behind the fouling rate.
I've got some JB bore paste on order and I'm looking at getting a bore scope. I know for the cost I could just get a lilja barrel and be done with it but that's not my nature, no fun in that! I see great potential in this barrel if I can cure the fouling problem. Since I own 5 rifles I'm curious as to what the bore scope will show me in them all so I'm not spending crazy money just for a single rifle.
To note the progress with this rifle I'll sum it up:
-Brand new could not shoot a good group.
-Two bricks shot could shoot a good group but fouled out within 10 shots from clean barrel.
-Three bricks shot see group above from clean barrel, fouls out in the range of 15-25 shots from clean barrel.
What I'm going to do next is use the JB bore paste to really make sure it's clean, verify with bore scope. Shoot a few more bricks of bulk ammo and clean with JB every time the accuracy falls off (this could be very frequently for awhile) and it will hopefully continue to settle down and foul less. Final step, succeed in the 1/2" challenge!
I've got some JB bore paste on order and I'm looking at getting a bore scope. I know for the cost I could just get a lilja barrel and be done with it but that's not my nature, no fun in that! I see great potential in this barrel if I can cure the fouling problem. Since I own 5 rifles I'm curious as to what the bore scope will show me in them all so I'm not spending crazy money just for a single rifle.
To note the progress with this rifle I'll sum it up:
-Brand new could not shoot a good group.
-Two bricks shot could shoot a good group but fouled out within 10 shots from clean barrel.
-Three bricks shot see group above from clean barrel, fouls out in the range of 15-25 shots from clean barrel.
What I'm going to do next is use the JB bore paste to really make sure it's clean, verify with bore scope. Shoot a few more bricks of bulk ammo and clean with JB every time the accuracy falls off (this could be very frequently for awhile) and it will hopefully continue to settle down and foul less. Final step, succeed in the 1/2" challenge!
My bore scope arrived and has a story to tell about this rifle. It turns out there are burrs on each land at the leade, I'm sure you can picture this shaving lead off bullets like crazy. Having a peak at my other rifles (savage mk ii, remington 597, weatherby vanguard .270) shows nice clean lands. Those rifles (the .22s) have thousands of rounds through them so perhaps if they did have burrs when new they are long gone. The center fire typically burns off the burrs in well under 100 rounds. Also about an inch in from the chamber there was a nasty fouled spot and after cleaning with JB bore paste I could see the rough texture of the barrel in that spot would build fouling easily. Deeper into the barrel it looks fine nothing of concern.
Here you can see the sliver of burr breaking off
So I noted with the bore scope there were fouling spots the bronze brush effectively did nothing to remove but JB paste cleaned right up. Now that it is verified 100% clean I'm going to try to get to the range on Friday and see how quickly it fouls from those burrs and what effect shooting another brick will have on the burrs if they will gradually shoot off. A well respected member on RFC suggested if it were his rifle he'd lap the leade until the burrs were gone with a cast lead lap. I admit the thought of doing that makes me nervous because one can easily screw up a good barrel by improper lapping and I have zero training and experience or equipment to do this kind of thing.
Well now I know what I'm dealing with so if it looks like the burrs will shoot off, I'd be happy to just plink a few bricks of thunderbolt through it before I try lapping.
Here you can see the sliver of burr breaking off
So I noted with the bore scope there were fouling spots the bronze brush effectively did nothing to remove but JB paste cleaned right up. Now that it is verified 100% clean I'm going to try to get to the range on Friday and see how quickly it fouls from those burrs and what effect shooting another brick will have on the burrs if they will gradually shoot off. A well respected member on RFC suggested if it were his rifle he'd lap the leade until the burrs were gone with a cast lead lap. I admit the thought of doing that makes me nervous because one can easily screw up a good barrel by improper lapping and I have zero training and experience or equipment to do this kind of thing.
Well now I know what I'm dealing with so if it looks like the burrs will shoot off, I'd be happy to just plink a few bricks of thunderbolt through it before I try lapping.
No selling! Who's going to buy it with all the clearly documented issues and modifications? It's clearly defective I need to go back to Grech outdoors again with my bore scope pics and slap them upside the head for not checking. Should that fail I'm getting a lilja, then trying my hand at lapping the factory barrel to see if it can be fixed. After seeing the bore scope pics the guy on RFC changed his tune about being hopeful the barrel is fixable He says nothing to lose but time lapping it as you'll be going into it with the mindset it needs to be replaced anyway.
He says nothing to lose but time lapping it as you'll be going into it with the mindset it needs to be replaced anyway.
Your thread convinced me it was time for a Pillar/bedding job on my CZ455 Varmint with a laminated thumbhole stock and Gary Flach did the work.
Using Eley Match, Team and Tenex did not prove to be remarkable with a .77 at 50 yards and while a tuner will not make good ammo much better, 9it was installed and a .70 was obtained.
Next day out a box of Lapua Center X produced a 0.26 c-c at 50 yards out of a clean barrel. Went to 100 yards and had a 0.82. Adjusted the scope and the first shot was high like the cross hairs never moved so I tapped it and the next 4 measured .48 (40 - 4x on the 100 yard Unlimited Match target).
Shows promise but a bore score might show where there is a problem.
Using Eley Match, Team and Tenex did not prove to be remarkable with a .77 at 50 yards and while a tuner will not make good ammo much better, 9it was installed and a .70 was obtained.
Next day out a box of Lapua Center X produced a 0.26 c-c at 50 yards out of a clean barrel. Went to 100 yards and had a 0.82. Adjusted the scope and the first shot was high like the cross hairs never moved so I tapped it and the next 4 measured .48 (40 - 4x on the 100 yard Unlimited Match target).
Shows promise but a bore score might show where there is a problem.
I'd buy it. It's been meticulously inspected and even had a colonoscopy!
No selling! Who's going to buy it with all the clearly documented issues and modifications? It's clearly defective I need to go back to Grech outdoors again with my bore scope pics and slap them upside the head for not checking. Should that fail I'm getting a lilja, then trying my hand at lapping the factory barrel to see if it can be fixed. After seeing the bore scope pics the guy on RFC changed his tune about being hopeful the barrel is fixable
You don't know where my cleaning rod's been
Better question, who's going to pay me at least 80% of the new sale value? I refuse to be soaked on a sale. It doesn't make a whole lot of sense to sell the whole thing either because it has the swap barrel design so it is very easy for me to purchase a good barrel and install it. Again that brings me back to the fact I shouldn't have to go out of pocket for what I've now proven to be a irreparable manufacturing defect. In the event they refuse the warranty, I have no confidence left in CZ's manufacturing and would only consider buying a factory replacement barrel if I can first inspect it with my bore scope. Thus I would most likely get a lilja for it. Heck, even the leade on my Weatherby XXII is kinda rough looking explaining why it hasn't dazzled me yet and that barrel and action were made by anschutz. It is burr free so I am hopeful it will smooth out and perform better in time with shooting. I think I'll just go shoot my Savage tomorrow... sigh.The problem with going to a lija is the $500 cost adding in the $5 to $600 for the original 455 and your in brand new anschutz 64 territory. I just ordered a new mpr 64 from prophet river for 1259$ all in.Funny thing is I can't seem to sell my pillar beded Boyds stocked 455 with DIP accessories and a trigger so light it's almost scary. The 455 of mine is also a shooter doing a best of .166.The 455 is over 1 K as it sits and we'll decent my old bone stock match 64 out shoots it hands down. I wish you luck it might be cheaper getting a new stock varmint barrel.
It seems odd to me to avoid buying a rifle that's been bedded, I think "great, the work and expense to get this shooting it's best has already been done". On the other hand... I'm now inclined to demand borescope video of the whole barrel because you can bed the action until the cows come home but it won't fix a defective bore. Lucky me to get two in a row. Now that I have the tool, I will never again buy a rifle that I cannot first personally inspect with my bore scope.
Yeah Savagecnuck add up $600 CZ, $1000 borescope, $800 lilja and I'm at the price of the anschutz 1710 I talked myself out of buying. I can't look at it like that though I do otherwise like the canadian edition rifle and I'd be happy to pay the price for lilja performance on it. My Anschutz 64 barreled action in a Weatherby stock isn't exactly shooting the lights out either for the $1500 price tag. I'm hopeful it will come around after shooting a few bricks, while rough in the bore no burr defects like the cz. You can tell me "why get a lilja that's anschutz money" but just cause it's anschutz don't *guarantee* it's proper. ymmv.
A modified rifle isn't necessarily better than a stock one IMO.
I'm a licensed mill wright, know my way around machine tools, and I'm picky about results. All that notwithstanding, my 455 American shot awful after adding pillars.
The full bedding job that followed cured it, touching up the crown put the icing on the cake. There are a couple minor voids in the bedding that I'm going to cheerfully ignore.
If I buy a firearm on the EE, I'm wary to buy a modified one. I'd pay more for a bone stock version of the same model.
Having said all that, my CZ shoots quite well now, better than stock. I'm done modding it, other than maybe a Mr. Fly trigger if I can ever get one in Canada.
I don't like the suspense of the first range trip after changing something that can affect accuracy. Better is always good, yes. Worse is a sickening experience, particularly if it's something you can't reverse.
I'm a licensed mill wright, know my way around machine tools, and I'm picky about results. All that notwithstanding, my 455 American shot awful after adding pillars.
The full bedding job that followed cured it, touching up the crown put the icing on the cake. There are a couple minor voids in the bedding that I'm going to cheerfully ignore.
If I buy a firearm on the EE, I'm wary to buy a modified one. I'd pay more for a bone stock version of the same model.
Having said all that, my CZ shoots quite well now, better than stock. I'm done modding it, other than maybe a Mr. Fly trigger if I can ever get one in Canada.
I don't like the suspense of the first range trip after changing something that can affect accuracy. Better is always good, yes. Worse is a sickening experience, particularly if it's something you can't reverse.
