I do a lot of bench shooting [200 yards] just to prepare myself for the hunt and my go to guns are my Sako 75 and My Tikka's. We are talking .65moa at 200 yards with reloads, but I'm sure factory ammo was at least 1 moa. If all you are doing is bench shooting, I would still shoot a Tikka HB like the tactical or varmint models. If hunting is your thing then go with the Tikka T3.
CZ 550 American vs. Tikka T3 Hunter vs. Kimber 8400 Classic
- Thread starter iceclimber
- Start date
I went out and viewed the Winchester M70 Supergrade and was quite impressed. I was not really looking at Winchester, but may have to change my mind. What I am looking for is;
1. Quality of Craftsmanship ( if that is attainable in a non custom)
2. great walnut stock
3. preferably controlled round feeding
4. safety that I can load and unload with the safety engaged
I am also willing to try a different caliber, such as 7-08, 7mm, or 7wsm.
Hence my preference of the CZ. I have all but written off Kimber for now. Is the Sako 85 a true Controlled feed?? More cash but could be induced........
1. Quality of Craftsmanship ( if that is attainable in a non custom)
2. great walnut stock
3. preferably controlled round feeding
4. safety that I can load and unload with the safety engaged
I am also willing to try a different caliber, such as 7-08, 7mm, or 7wsm.
Hence my preference of the CZ. I have all but written off Kimber for now. Is the Sako 85 a true Controlled feed?? More cash but could be induced........
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I can't show pics of CZ groups, but my understanding is they are known for being tough an dependable, accurate, but mostly tough and dependable. Tikka's are often stupidly accurate. Here are som egroups I shot with my 6.5x55 with reloads I kind of slapped together. I am a pretty good shot, but this rifle is way better than I am. 10 five shot groups one day with two powders, and different charge weights averaged .7 inches, this from a rifle that weighs less 7.5 pounds all in.
I haven't owned a Tikka that wouldn't shoot 3 shot groups under 1/2" at 100 yards with NO load development..actually now that I think about it...all of my rifles would do that..maybe it's the shooter??
Most of mine have done that too, but not usually as quickly as the rifle above. That's the reason I gravitated to Sako rifles over Remchesters.
Out of all of these guns, the Tikka is the only one that has a detachable magazine. This is a very convenient feature. Personally, I would'nt buy a hunting gun that did'nt have a detacheable magazine. Climbing treestands, driving a ATV, driving up and down logging roads, and just about any time that requires you to unload a gun, and reload quickly is just so much more convenient with a detachable magazine.
I once missed the chance at a nice Moose because we were driving down a logging road in a truck, and when we scene the Moose cross a path in front of us, by the time I jumped out of the truck, fumbled to find a couple of cartridges to try to load into the action of my Remington Model 700 BDL, the darn Moose was gone into the thick bush. Try loading a couple rounds into the top of the action when your half asleep, and hungover, while everyone is yelling at you to hurry up. If I had a detachable magazine, I would of easily found it in my pocket, and popped it into my rifle and for sure would of had time to quickly get a shot off, and would of have dropped myself a nice moose. Instead all I have is this stupid story.
Too make a long story short, I sold my fixed magazine Remington model 700 BDL and bought a Tikka T3 Lite Stainless. Ugly as all heck(the T3 Hunter is nice looking though), but the rain does'nt bother it, the thing flat out shoots great, its about as heavy as a .22LR, and I can slam in a magazine and shoot something in about 3 seconds.......even if I'm tired and hung over.
I once missed the chance at a nice Moose because we were driving down a logging road in a truck, and when we scene the Moose cross a path in front of us, by the time I jumped out of the truck, fumbled to find a couple of cartridges to try to load into the action of my Remington Model 700 BDL, the darn Moose was gone into the thick bush. Try loading a couple rounds into the top of the action when your half asleep, and hungover, while everyone is yelling at you to hurry up. If I had a detachable magazine, I would of easily found it in my pocket, and popped it into my rifle and for sure would of had time to quickly get a shot off, and would of have dropped myself a nice moose. Instead all I have is this stupid story.
Too make a long story short, I sold my fixed magazine Remington model 700 BDL and bought a Tikka T3 Lite Stainless. Ugly as all heck(the T3 Hunter is nice looking though), but the rain does'nt bother it, the thing flat out shoots great, its about as heavy as a .22LR, and I can slam in a magazine and shoot something in about 3 seconds.......even if I'm tired and hung over.
Thanks for your story blueflash!! It's the old" I went Moose hunting and all I got was this damn tshirt/story". I had a friend come over tonight with his Browning Bar II, which has a hinged plate with a detachable mag. That is what I thought that the M70 had, but of course I was wrong. I will have to rethink my selections, and see if the CRF action with a set magazine would bother me. I have a few reservations about every rifle I am interested in.... I guess it comes down to compromises.... Can anyone comment on the pros/cons of the CRF action with fixed magazine?? My hunting party generally drives logging roads for first hour, then push bush most of the day, and back into the truck for the last hour of light. Is this going to be a problem if I do choose the M70 or a Kimber 8400?? Will it drive me to drink?? more??
Detachable magazine VS Fixed magazine is not important for some hunters. If your hunting dangerous game, then most guys prefer a fixed magazine because you don't ever have to worry about the magazine dropping out by accident or by recoil. You don't really have to worry about it now adays though, because any decent new gun with a detachable magazine won't pop out from the recoil, because all guns today are designed pretty well.
If you are the kind of hunter who does'nt have to worry about unloading your gun often during the course of a days hunt, then having a fixed magazine won't bother you. Although it still is a bit of a pain in the but for dumping the cartridges out at the end of the days hunt and putting them in your pocket, then fishing them out the next day to reload them.
However, if your the kind of hunter who drives around on a ATV, or goes back and fourth to one spot to the next in a truck on a logging road then a detachable magazine is the #1 feature on a hunting rifle that you should look for......or at least in my personal opinion from experience it is. Having a magazine in your pocket is so convenient to be able to slam into your rifle, cycle the bolt and be ready to rock n roll in 3 seconds. Half the time you ever see game is on a logging road or from your ATV. Its also nice to have a detachable magazine if you climb up and down a treestand or lookout spot.
I know that a fixed magazine is more of a traditional hunting rifle feature, that alot of hunters like, just to be traditional really. However a detachable magazine is just so much more practical. Its all up to you, but you need to ask yourself a few important questions when you buy your first hunting rifle. If your like me then you will buy 3 different rifles, until you realize what features that you really want, and what is your definition of a perfect hunting rifle. Ask yourself these questions....
1. Detachable Mag or Fixed Mag ?
2. Light, scratch resistant synthetic or delicate but nice looking wood ?
3. Low maitenance Stainless Barrel or Blued Barrel, that you must take greater care of ?
Really, it comes down to do you want a very nice looking wood/blued rifle that you must take care of and you really need to baby it if you want it to remain looking the way it does, or would you prefer a plain looking synthetic/stainless that is low maitenance and is ready to hunt in any weather and feel free to go bushwacking.
I have had a few nice looking wood/blued rifles that looked amazing and everyone always wanted to shoulder my gun when we are cleaning the rifles at the end of the day at the hunt camp. I realized that they look great, but they just are'nt for me because of my almost abusive hunting style. I spend all day in the bush hunting in the lousiest weather, of rain/snow mix and I often bushwack to get to a good far off spot that no man has gone to before. I hunt with a ATV sometimes and if I need to jump off of my bike grab my rifle quickly, slam in a mag, and crack off a quick shot, I can do so very fast without fumbling around to load my gun.
I sold a Browning Bar also because I find the hinged/detachable magazine is also kind of a pain in the butt. If you want a detachable mag, you want one that you can slam it in fast, and not have to wrestle with a hinged floorplate and get the mag hooked on that stupid clip just perfect Browning Bar.
Look at a Tikka, Weatherby, or Savage rifle if you want a decent hunting rifle with a detachable mag. If you can afford a Sako, then they are about the nicest detachable magazine rifle out there, IMHO.
If your looking for a nice looking gun, that you don't mind about a fixed magazine, then Kimber and CZ are both nice guns.
If you are the kind of hunter who does'nt have to worry about unloading your gun often during the course of a days hunt, then having a fixed magazine won't bother you. Although it still is a bit of a pain in the but for dumping the cartridges out at the end of the days hunt and putting them in your pocket, then fishing them out the next day to reload them.
However, if your the kind of hunter who drives around on a ATV, or goes back and fourth to one spot to the next in a truck on a logging road then a detachable magazine is the #1 feature on a hunting rifle that you should look for......or at least in my personal opinion from experience it is. Having a magazine in your pocket is so convenient to be able to slam into your rifle, cycle the bolt and be ready to rock n roll in 3 seconds. Half the time you ever see game is on a logging road or from your ATV. Its also nice to have a detachable magazine if you climb up and down a treestand or lookout spot.
I know that a fixed magazine is more of a traditional hunting rifle feature, that alot of hunters like, just to be traditional really. However a detachable magazine is just so much more practical. Its all up to you, but you need to ask yourself a few important questions when you buy your first hunting rifle. If your like me then you will buy 3 different rifles, until you realize what features that you really want, and what is your definition of a perfect hunting rifle. Ask yourself these questions....
1. Detachable Mag or Fixed Mag ?
2. Light, scratch resistant synthetic or delicate but nice looking wood ?
3. Low maitenance Stainless Barrel or Blued Barrel, that you must take greater care of ?
Really, it comes down to do you want a very nice looking wood/blued rifle that you must take care of and you really need to baby it if you want it to remain looking the way it does, or would you prefer a plain looking synthetic/stainless that is low maitenance and is ready to hunt in any weather and feel free to go bushwacking.
I have had a few nice looking wood/blued rifles that looked amazing and everyone always wanted to shoulder my gun when we are cleaning the rifles at the end of the day at the hunt camp. I realized that they look great, but they just are'nt for me because of my almost abusive hunting style. I spend all day in the bush hunting in the lousiest weather, of rain/snow mix and I often bushwack to get to a good far off spot that no man has gone to before. I hunt with a ATV sometimes and if I need to jump off of my bike grab my rifle quickly, slam in a mag, and crack off a quick shot, I can do so very fast without fumbling around to load my gun.
I sold a Browning Bar also because I find the hinged/detachable magazine is also kind of a pain in the butt. If you want a detachable mag, you want one that you can slam it in fast, and not have to wrestle with a hinged floorplate and get the mag hooked on that stupid clip just perfect Browning Bar.
Look at a Tikka, Weatherby, or Savage rifle if you want a decent hunting rifle with a detachable mag. If you can afford a Sako, then they are about the nicest detachable magazine rifle out there, IMHO.
If your looking for a nice looking gun, that you don't mind about a fixed magazine, then Kimber and CZ are both nice guns.
Iceclimber: None of your orig. choices has anything close to a nice walnut stock, Tikka and Sako rifles have very plain walnut stocks. I'm not sure about the new Winchesters but if you want a nice walnut stock you may have to shell out for an upgraded Cooper or Kimber. Some of the more specialized single shot rifles also come with nice walnut stocks, as well as some of the more expensive euro. rifles, either way you'll have to shell out more $$$ for nice walnut.
sharp shooter
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Essex county (Ontario)
I don't like magazines. When I'm travelling on the fourwheller with the gunn in the boot or am out in rain, etc, the clip on my belgium bar doesn't come apart and is a real ##### to clean. Also, the hinged floorplate makes it so easy to unload. Push a button and every shell in your mag pops into your hand. I'm glad that everybody on this thread likes different guns, its what makes guns interesting.
Also, if anybody cares, I shot .8" at 100 meters with 5 factory loads with a new M70. my scope has a very coarse cross hair and I canb't even se an inche dot a 100. It was the first group I shot after sighting my gun in.
I have heard of problems with the Kimber 8400 action but not the 84 although I haven't owned either.
My brother has a sako and it is really sweat, in fact I think one is on EE in .30-06 right now.
Also, if anybody cares, I shot .8" at 100 meters with 5 factory loads with a new M70. my scope has a very coarse cross hair and I canb't even se an inche dot a 100. It was the first group I shot after sighting my gun in.
I have heard of problems with the Kimber 8400 action but not the 84 although I haven't owned either.
My brother has a sako and it is really sweat, in fact I think one is on EE in .30-06 right now.
floor plate is not all metal on the actual CZ ...
you are correct my original cz550 manlicher was in 30-06 didnt like the plastic floor plate so i bought the same cz in 308 with a all steel detatchable mag and for my tikka i am buying a metal bolt shroud and a german made trigger guard Tikka t3 and cz 550 both brilliant euro guns that shoot better than most or all american guns out of the box if you can buy only 1 than get the t3 if you are in hilly/mountain country where easy carying is nice, if in the woods or the thickets maybe the cz is better, but if you are willing to pay for a sako or kimber than for the same money get both a tikka and a CZ lik i did
My last choice would definitely be the T3
If it was $300 less, it would likely be a good deal,but it's like a Mossberg rifle with a Sako price tag.
If you want:
1. Quality of Craftsmanship ( if that is attainable in a non custom)
2. great walnut stock
3. preferably controlled round feeding
4. safety that I can load and unload with the safety engaged
The T3 offers one out of 4. You can load and unload with safety engaged.
The model 70 has a hinged floorplate, not a crappy plastic detachable magazine, and not the crappy Browning abortion combo detachable floorplate thingy.
I don't road hunt much but it is just as quick to drop a cartridge into the chamber and close the bolt as it is to insert a magazine. If you use your head and keep your ammo on your belt or somewhere else where you don't lose it, then you don't have to dig in your pockets for it. I find hinged floorplate to be the best system.As I said, I don't road hunt much...but when I have I've never missed out on a shot on an animal because I couldn't load a rifle in time
I prefer CRF to PF but it's not really that big of a deal as both work just fine.
If it was $300 less, it would likely be a good deal,but it's like a Mossberg rifle with a Sako price tag.
If you want:
1. Quality of Craftsmanship ( if that is attainable in a non custom)
2. great walnut stock
3. preferably controlled round feeding
4. safety that I can load and unload with the safety engaged
The T3 offers one out of 4. You can load and unload with safety engaged.
The model 70 has a hinged floorplate, not a crappy plastic detachable magazine, and not the crappy Browning abortion combo detachable floorplate thingy.
I don't road hunt much but it is just as quick to drop a cartridge into the chamber and close the bolt as it is to insert a magazine. If you use your head and keep your ammo on your belt or somewhere else where you don't lose it, then you don't have to dig in your pockets for it. I find hinged floorplate to be the best system.As I said, I don't road hunt much...but when I have I've never missed out on a shot on an animal because I couldn't load a rifle in time
I prefer CRF to PF but it's not really that big of a deal as both work just fine.
Back from shopping. Local Wholesale Sports had a CZ 550 in 300. Nice rifle!! It has come down to CZ and Win Model 70 Super Grade. The Super Grade felt a touch heavier in the hand than the CZ, but felt better in balance. CZ was a great compact feeling gun with good balance also. What has sold me on the 70 is the quality of all the parts, right down to the hinge plate and follower. If there is a nicer set out there, I haven't seen them yet. One thing the 70 had that I don't particularly care for is the high gloss finish on the barrel. The walnut stocks on both rifles was beautiful, with the edge to the 70 for the cheek piece. The old 3 position safety is also a plus on the 70, although the CZ's bolt is also operable with the safety on. So for me, the winner is the Model 70 Super Grade!! Will get optics on, and start firing!!
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Beaver Skin
CGN Regular
- Location
- Lower Mainland, BC
Good choice with the Mdl 70, and great that you didn't' fall into the Tikka trap!
I agree!
One more thing that must be pointed out about the Tikka T3s is the cost of extra magazines. I think $85.00 for a plastic magazine is a bit much when Questar is selling Magpul PMAGs for ARs for $25 each.
Tikkas are OK in comparison with Savages and other economy rifles, but there are much nicer rifles available in a similar price range.
Tikkas are OK in comparison with Savages and other economy rifles, but there are much nicer rifles available in a similar price range.
