Cz 750 Sniper
- Thread starter Radical!
- Start date
Looks like a 550 Action.
They work well on a 416 Rigby but are probably a bit clunky and sloppy for a tactical piece.
I have tossed the idea around of the idea of building a chey-Tac or a 338-378 on one (have an action laying around) but it makes my gunsmith queazy.
I wonder were they got the stock?
They work well on a 416 Rigby but are probably a bit clunky and sloppy for a tactical piece.
I have tossed the idea around of the idea of building a chey-Tac or a 338-378 on one (have an action laying around) but it makes my gunsmith queazy.
I wonder were they got the stock?
Mystic Precision
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Summerland, BC
With my experiences with Bruno, the orig company to CZ, I would say the rifle works just fine for its intended use. Most Euro companies make all of the parts in house unless they are making a product for the NA market. Then they might subcontract parts to fit a look.
I think the trend to 'tight' actions in tacky rifles is actually a bad thing. The only time an action needs to be tight is when the bolt is fully closed on a chambered rd. The slop during function will ensure the action functions even under the dirtiest of conditions.
Jerry
I think the trend to 'tight' actions in tacky rifles is actually a bad thing. The only time an action needs to be tight is when the bolt is fully closed on a chambered rd. The slop during function will ensure the action functions even under the dirtiest of conditions.
Jerry
mysticplayer said:
While I'm sure most of us enjoy the craftsmenship of slickity slick tolerances, no play in any part and so on, Mysticplayer mentions a crucial point.
Moreover, this is particularly the case of service firearms and actions that were built with service in mind. Mauser intended for the action to work in the crud field and still be strong on lock up where is counts.
Jerry,
Interesting call on the Brno.
Think we could get a 550 to work as a long range tactical rifle?
A Brno 550 (or older 602) in a McMillan Baker special chambered in 338 LAI??
I happen to have a 602 sitting in my basement!
What do you think?
Interesting call on the Brno.
Think we could get a 550 to work as a long range tactical rifle?
A Brno 550 (or older 602) in a McMillan Baker special chambered in 338 LAI??
I happen to have a 602 sitting in my basement!
What do you think?
Mystic Precision
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Summerland, BC
There is little reason why you can't build a very accurate TACTICAL rifle from just about any action. Some E. Euro pro teams use the Moisin Nagant action. I have seen one rebarreled to a 300WM of all things.
The key is barrel quality and installation. A moderate barrel with a true install will shoot better then a top match barrel with a cockeyed chamber.
The action simply allows the chambering and firing of the rd. Accuracy is determined by the barrel and bullet/ammo. As along as the action locks up tight enough to repeatedly handle the pressure of firing, its good.
I have built some very accurate rifles based on sporterised Enfields (Lee and P's), and Mausers. All shot 1/2 MOA or better which is all a tacky rifle will ever need. Of course, a modern action is far nicer to use but 'pretty' isn't critical to me in a working environment.
All of these rifles would have no problem functioning in the rigours of active duty. I would hesitate against a low tolerance BR type action just in case. I doubt that the Timberwolf is as tight as a BR action. I know the AI isn't.
A tacky rifle to me has to function first and foremost under the worse of conditions. That means some slop in the workings of the action but at the same time, a way to lock up tight repeatedly. Then it needs to deliver min of bad guy accuracy under those conditions. nothing more, nothing less.
Alot can be learnt from the robust simplicity of the Eastern bloc and Chinese hardware. Their prime concern is tough gear that does its intended job. They have little interest in cover pics on glossy mags.
Their gear has proven itself time again and ironically, we are adopting many of their principles, abeit using many times more resources.
Jerry
PS Most factory rifles today will function as a tactical rifle very nicely right out of the box. I can't see why any LE model from Rem or Savage couldn't handle anything the real world can throw at it.
The key is barrel quality and installation. A moderate barrel with a true install will shoot better then a top match barrel with a cockeyed chamber.
The action simply allows the chambering and firing of the rd. Accuracy is determined by the barrel and bullet/ammo. As along as the action locks up tight enough to repeatedly handle the pressure of firing, its good.
I have built some very accurate rifles based on sporterised Enfields (Lee and P's), and Mausers. All shot 1/2 MOA or better which is all a tacky rifle will ever need. Of course, a modern action is far nicer to use but 'pretty' isn't critical to me in a working environment.
All of these rifles would have no problem functioning in the rigours of active duty. I would hesitate against a low tolerance BR type action just in case. I doubt that the Timberwolf is as tight as a BR action. I know the AI isn't.
A tacky rifle to me has to function first and foremost under the worse of conditions. That means some slop in the workings of the action but at the same time, a way to lock up tight repeatedly. Then it needs to deliver min of bad guy accuracy under those conditions. nothing more, nothing less.
Alot can be learnt from the robust simplicity of the Eastern bloc and Chinese hardware. Their prime concern is tough gear that does its intended job. They have little interest in cover pics on glossy mags.
Their gear has proven itself time again and ironically, we are adopting many of their principles, abeit using many times more resources.
Jerry
PS Most factory rifles today will function as a tactical rifle very nicely right out of the box. I can't see why any LE model from Rem or Savage couldn't handle anything the real world can throw at it.
Mystic Precision
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Summerland, BC
Xman, a tactical rifle has to be portable to be effective. Getting a hernia moving it is not ideal.
How the common tacky rifle has evolved to weigh upwards of 18lbs is beyond me. Most pros really aren't that uncoordinated and can be trained to use a rock instead of their rifle to drive in their tent pegs.
Personally, a 308 tacky rifle WITH a scope should weigh no more then 10lbs unloaded (8lbs with a 24" pipe is a no brainer today).
I would prefer all that extra weight to be ammo, food, water and an assault rifle.
Jerry
How the common tacky rifle has evolved to weigh upwards of 18lbs is beyond me. Most pros really aren't that uncoordinated and can be trained to use a rock instead of their rifle to drive in their tent pegs.
Personally, a 308 tacky rifle WITH a scope should weigh no more then 10lbs unloaded (8lbs with a 24" pipe is a no brainer today).
I would prefer all that extra weight to be ammo, food, water and an assault rifle.
Jerry
Mysticplayer,
My reference to "tactical" is intended as a look and not necessarily a function.
I really don't like lightweight tackys....The ones I do like I call hunting rifles.
I suppose if I were a true "tactical Shooter" I would like the LTR or something similar.
Most of my LR shooting involves dragging my rifle a few hundred yards then shooting from improvised field positions. The other LR style I like is shooting from heavy portable rests.
In either example I find I can shoot a 20 pound rifle more (consistently) accurate than I can a 10 pounder.
Though I am sure most of my stationary LR shooting would by better served by a Tooley Mbr style stock (or a F-class stock) than an A-5 (or similar) I like the tactical look. Some day I would like to do a heavy bench or F-Class.
Have you got much experience with the big 33's?
My reference to "tactical" is intended as a look and not necessarily a function.
I really don't like lightweight tackys....The ones I do like I call hunting rifles.
I suppose if I were a true "tactical Shooter" I would like the LTR or something similar.
Most of my LR shooting involves dragging my rifle a few hundred yards then shooting from improvised field positions. The other LR style I like is shooting from heavy portable rests.
In either example I find I can shoot a 20 pound rifle more (consistently) accurate than I can a 10 pounder.
Though I am sure most of my stationary LR shooting would by better served by a Tooley Mbr style stock (or a F-class stock) than an A-5 (or similar) I like the tactical look. Some day I would like to do a heavy bench or F-Class.
Have you got much experience with the big 33's?
Mystic Precision
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Summerland, BC
It is always easier and QUIETER to drag a lighter rifle. Accuracy and consistency is a function of practise but whatever works for you.
What do you want to know about the 338's?
Jerry
What do you want to know about the 338's?
Jerry
I am working on a 338 Edge based on an accurized Remington.
The rifle is intended to shoot the 300's.
A-5 stock, 28" Gaillard heavy varmint, Nosler brass, 8-32 Nightforce.
Was planning on an Ops Inc brake but just heard some unfavorable (unconfirmed) news on this brand.
It will be a single shot so I am planing a long throat min spec reamer to accommodate the long 300's.
My thinking is that this will somewhat increase powder capacity but I am concerned about potential accuracy repercussions (concentricy).
What are your thoughts?
Any hardware you would change?
The rifle is intended to shoot the 300's.
A-5 stock, 28" Gaillard heavy varmint, Nosler brass, 8-32 Nightforce.
Was planning on an Ops Inc brake but just heard some unfavorable (unconfirmed) news on this brand.
It will be a single shot so I am planing a long throat min spec reamer to accommodate the long 300's.
My thinking is that this will somewhat increase powder capacity but I am concerned about potential accuracy repercussions (concentricy).
What are your thoughts?
Any hardware you would change?
Mystic Precision
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Summerland, BC
It all looks pretty basic. The improved 300RUMs are doing well. Don't get too carried away with the throat lengthening, the barrel will wear fast enough. I did my 338 Mystic (same thing) with a short throat first. I can always lengthen the throat as needed. I intend to hand throat at home. Done that for my 6.5 Mystics with no issues.
There is no magic OAL length. It all works. Powder choice will determine this more then anything. Looks like the new US869 powder is burning very accurately. That means you can cram ALOT into a case. You may not need to seat that bullet way out there.
If you need to go slower and must use the H50BMG, then you will need all the case capacity you can because this is a very bulky powder.
You can extend a throat later. Setting back a barrel is much more problematic.
Contact Glock-a-matic. He has a great performing brake on his 338Lapua AI. Rear venting. Kept recoil way down and really wasn't any more obnoxious as other side venting brakes.
Jerry
There is no magic OAL length. It all works. Powder choice will determine this more then anything. Looks like the new US869 powder is burning very accurately. That means you can cram ALOT into a case. You may not need to seat that bullet way out there.
If you need to go slower and must use the H50BMG, then you will need all the case capacity you can because this is a very bulky powder.
You can extend a throat later. Setting back a barrel is much more problematic.
Contact Glock-a-matic. He has a great performing brake on his 338Lapua AI. Rear venting. Kept recoil way down and really wasn't any more obnoxious as other side venting brakes.
Jerry
mysticplayer,
Didn't think I could get enough US 869 into the case
Haven't played with 869...is it dense like H-870??
Thought I would end up running Retumbo.
How fast can the Edge (Mystic) push the 300? I was hoping for 2950 fps?
My 338 Ultra runs single digit ES when loaded with the appropriate dose of RL-25....Can the same be obtained with 869 in the Edge?
Whatever it takes to get the ES down I will do!
I assume a tight neck is of no help??
I spoke with Glockomatic and he was very informative.
He mentioned he was running a 9.5" twist.
Do you think a 10" twist will properly stabilize the 300SMK?
Didn't think I could get enough US 869 into the case
Haven't played with 869...is it dense like H-870??
Thought I would end up running Retumbo.
How fast can the Edge (Mystic) push the 300? I was hoping for 2950 fps?
My 338 Ultra runs single digit ES when loaded with the appropriate dose of RL-25....Can the same be obtained with 869 in the Edge?
Whatever it takes to get the ES down I will do!
I assume a tight neck is of no help??
I spoke with Glockomatic and he was very informative.
He mentioned he was running a 9.5" twist.
Do you think a 10" twist will properly stabilize the 300SMK?
Mystic Precision
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Summerland, BC
US869 is a ball powder like H870 but with new coatings to make it more temp stable (no confirmation on this). As to how low an ES you can get, only shooting your rifle will tell. I like using a standard neck tension ie 3 to 4 thou.
Ultimately, holes in paper matter, not chronie data. The error in the chronie is higher then the levels you want to measure. All chronies are rated at 1/2% error of the velocity so a 3000fps will have a +/- error of 15fps. How do you measure single digit ES's with a 30FPS spread due to machine error alone?
I would test at least 200yds, with 300yds being ideal. If the rifle groups well here, it will group well as far as you want to shoot. Holding 1/2 MOA CONSISTENTLY is more important then bughole short range groups that string at longer distances.
You should be able to get 2900 to 3000fps with your wildcat and the 300gr MK's but is that where you barrel likes to shoot? A 10 twist will stabilize the 300gr MK's.
Good luck with your project.
Jerry
Ultimately, holes in paper matter, not chronie data. The error in the chronie is higher then the levels you want to measure. All chronies are rated at 1/2% error of the velocity so a 3000fps will have a +/- error of 15fps. How do you measure single digit ES's with a 30FPS spread due to machine error alone?
I would test at least 200yds, with 300yds being ideal. If the rifle groups well here, it will group well as far as you want to shoot. Holding 1/2 MOA CONSISTENTLY is more important then bughole short range groups that string at longer distances.
You should be able to get 2900 to 3000fps with your wildcat and the 300gr MK's but is that where you barrel likes to shoot? A 10 twist will stabilize the 300gr MK's.
Good luck with your project.
Jerry
mysticplayer,
I thought my oehler 35 was accurate to single digits (4 foot spread with proof channel)?
I just looked on Oehler's web site and they say 4fps error at 3000 fps under ideal conditions with dark bullets??
I understand that final load development should be tuned at long range (I tune at 350 yds as it is the closest long shot for me) but I would still think velocity variation important?
I guess what you are saying is forget the chronograph and go straight to long range?
What velocity did your 338 Mystic best shoot the 300's?
I thought my oehler 35 was accurate to single digits (4 foot spread with proof channel)?
I just looked on Oehler's web site and they say 4fps error at 3000 fps under ideal conditions with dark bullets??
I understand that final load development should be tuned at long range (I tune at 350 yds as it is the closest long shot for me) but I would still think velocity variation important?
I guess what you are saying is forget the chronograph and go straight to long range?
What velocity did your 338 Mystic best shoot the 300's?
