CZ 858 - First Impressions

[Perple_Nerple]

Niftly little unit. Much lighter and smaller than what I thought it was going to be. Very easy to strip.

However....... I'm not so sure about the quality.

To those of you who say its all milled, well its NOT.

The trigger guard is NOT milled.

Heres the pics of my Brand new 858 after using 1/4 inch ratchet 'hand tight', to install a new Fab Defense pistol grip.... so far - NOT IMPRESSED.

I was installing a new Fab Defense pistol grip. I was being extra careful not to torque to much on it because the pistol grip is plastic......

Has this happened to anyone else???

As you can see the tabs that hold the nut behind the sheet metal are freaking TINY. I really hope that this is not a tell on how the rest of my 858 experience will be.

I had it all snugged up and I picked up the gun by the grip without supporting it at the hand guard and the pistol grip ripped right out!


EDIT:


I just sent these pics via email to the vendor, and called them. Their gunsmith has never seen anything like it before, so they have offered to either fix the gun or send me a new one. So far I am super pleased with the level of service and attention.

 

[RaTa]

Trigger guard is not milled however the part that failed sure is. I would suggest you either tightened too much, poor heat treating or poor machining of the receiver.

 

[Perple_Nerple]

Trigger guard is not milled however the part that failed sure is. I would suggest you either tightened too much, poor heat treating or poor machining of the receiver.

Well I used a 1/4" ratchet like a screw driver just putting it in hand tight. It just kept going and going....

To me it looks like the part that failed is the trigger guard. The nut inside the received is only held in by the stamped metal on the trigger guard as far as I can tell.

 

[WRENCHGOD]

That looks like it only contacted the trigger guard, all of my rifles the pg piece locks into the receiver.

 

[insurrecto]

that sucks, but when you get it fixed i bet youll be really happy with your new peashooter!

i have small hands, so i havent changed the grip on mine yet...

 

[WRENCHGOD]

The pic dosn't show very well, Did it rip out the front and back of the receiver, or just the trigger guard?

 

[broncoo]

hmm was the t nut facing the right way?

 

[skinnadoor]

Could have been over-torqued at the factory during the install.....but that is way way over torqued.


Anyone know what the real torque value CZ states for the grip ?

Were you drinking beer while messing with your 858 ? J/K

 

[Workingspy]

The t bolt that the screw goes into snaps in on mine, however there is play and I can defiantly see it doing some warping or worse if tightened to much. I have to hold it in from the top side so it doesn't come loose, then when I feel it move slightly from the torque I stop. Good luck, I am sure you can get a way stronger/better setup welded in there somewhere.

hmm was the t nut facing the right way?

I was thinking that also as it will really only work one way properly, I don't have mine around to take a look however.

Cheers,
Evan

 

[Perple_Nerple]

That looks like it only contacted the trigger guard, all of my rifles the pg piece locks into the receiver.

Not sure what you mean. But as far as I can tell theres no damage to the receiver, only the trigger guard. It appears as though the nut sits on the trigger guard only.

hmm was the t nut facing the right way?

T nut was facing as it is in the pictures.

Could have been over-torqued at the factory during the install.....but that is way way over torqued.


Anyone know what the real torque value CZ states for the grip ?

Were you drinking beer while messing with your 858 ? J/K

Har har!

no, i was sober as can be. I was being extra careful, as I stated earlier I was actually worried about wrecking the grip because its plastic.

It was on nice and snug, and i picked it up by the grip and them bam, the rifle smashes into my coffee table and im left with only the grip in my hand!

 

[skinnadoor]

I work on planes, and when i first started i broke, tore, hamfisted stuff all the time. If it's somthing like 50 inch pounds, it's 50 inch pounds, period... or else !!!!

Would realy love a torque spec on this... Let's do some digging and see if we can't find it.

 

[JeffMan]

I work on planes, and when i first started i broke, tore, hamfisted stuff all the time. If it's somthing like 50 inch pounds, it's 50 inch pounds, period... or else !!!!

Would realy love a torque spec on this... Let's do some digging and see if we can't find it.

ditto... I was an automotive tech. Loctite is your best bet when working with aluminium or sheet metal.

I've had my grip off and on before with nary a problem (no loctite either) - you prob. just got a bad one. Thats crumby

On a side note: When I got my VZ58 I thought it didn't work because I switched the safety to the "30" and of course it wouldnt fire. - I've been happy besides that.

 

[Curtton]

To those of you who say its all milled, well its NOT.

The trigger guard is NOT milled.

Heres the pics of my Brand new 858 after using 1/4 inch ratchet 'hand tight', to install a new Fab Defense pistol grip.... so far - NOT IMPRESSED.

I was installing a new Fab Defense pistol grip. I was being extra careful not to torque to much on it because the pistol grip is plastic......

I had it all snugged up and I picked up the gun by the grip without supporting it at the hand guard and the pistol grip ripped right out!

.

1. i dont know who said all milled , i havent come across a rifle that doesnt have some stamp metal . the butt plate and top cover are also stamp .

2. i have two CZ858 and both of them i remove the grip retaining plate and it works fine. when i over tighten, im more likely destroy the grip before the nut come off the receiver.

http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=265420&highlight=diy

i think you didnt postion the nut correctly, you hook it to the grip retaining plate rather than the receiver , next time when screwing in the grip make sure the nut is position properly from the inside, it should be level on the inside and angled on the outside.

give that a try.

 

[Workingspy]

I work on planes, and when i first started i broke, tore, hamfisted stuff all the time. If it's somthing like 50 inch pounds, it's 50 inch pounds, period... or else !!!!

Would realy love a torque spec on this... Let's do some digging and see if we can't find it.

I just emailed CZ right now to see if they can provide a torque specs for the CZ 858 / VZ 58's, lets see what we get.

Cheers,
Evan

 

[Perple_Nerple]

i think you didnt postion the nut correctly, you hook it to the grip retaining plate rather than the receiver , next time when screwing in the grip make sure the nut is position properly from the inside, it should be level on the inside and angled on the outside.

give that a try.

Hey thanks for the link man.

I looked at what you did there, and I can say 100% that the nut was positioned in the only possible way it could have worked.

If you position the nut any other way the bolt will not mate at the right angle and the pistol grip will be off tilt because the T nut is angled.

it was just like it is in this picture:

Can anyone else post up pictures of theirs?

 

[Stevo]

Edit 2: D'oh, had a brain fart.

Edit: is that pic flipped? With the trigger guard on the left of the pic, the safety should be on the other side of the rifle.

Hey thanks for the link man.

I looked at what you did there, and I can say 100% that the nut was positioned in the only possible way it could have worked.

If you position the nut any other way the bolt will not mate at the right angle and the pistol grip will be off tilt because the T nut is angled.

it was just like it is in this picture:

Can anyone else post up pictures of theirs?

 

[Curtton]

you are showing us the plate , we need to see the inside.

with the screw in the nut (like in your pic) , push it all the way in and then angle the screw in the proper angle as it would be in the grip and then pull back out , now look thru the inside , is the nut seated level and snug, screw angled to the rear?

 

[Curtton]

Edit: is that pic flipped? With the trigger guard on the left of the pic, the safety should be on the other side of the rifle.

good eyebal stevo but in this case it doesnt matter cos the screw and nut is in the right direction to the trigger guard.

 

[Perple_Nerple]

you are showing us the plate , we need to see the inside.

with the screw in the nut (like in your pic) , push it all the way in and then angle the screw in the proper angle as it would be in the grip and then pull back out , now look thru the inside , is the nut seated level and snug?

curtton im at work right now so im only working with the pictures that i took last night so bare with me here

I get what you're saying when I installed the grip and bolt it looked like this:

Theres only one way that t Nut will sit in there as far as I can tell.

And yes it was flipped

 

[Curtton]

actually you are too new to be installing the nut from the outside in.

the proper way is to drop the nut into the receiver, then use a needle nose plyer and position it in the open space, make sure it level and snug , hold the nut in position with one finger and then screw the grip from below.

i'll try to post a pic later.