CZ EVO S1 Scorpion *UPDATE*

I make no apologies I am a dinosaur of a past age, I give honest advice based on real life experience to customers. They are then free to go and purchase from the cheapest on line store with the fancy web page that they can find to save a buck, that is free enterprise. Then when they have a problem they come back to me to sort it out and sometimes they are surprized when I am a little short with them, I finish up with a reputation of been grouchy! Try and figure that out! :) Boy am I looking forward to retiring, at least my dog understands me.

I hear ya. I really do.
 
I believe with fair pricing and good service you will continue to have a successful business. The businesses that suffer the most will be those that took advantage of a monopoly to raise prices above what a competitive market will tolerate.

I can see both sides of this debate. A newer company uses technology and possibly a more efficient business model to bring products in at a lower price. In many ways that is good for the customer. On the other hand Wolverine had to spend years going through red tape and getting an FRT so they should be compensated for that. Otherwise why would any company bother bringing new products to the market?
 
^I agree with the above sentiment, as long as you remain relativily close to your competition, I would rather support you because as noted your service is awesome.

But if its going to be another case of the Bushmaster DMR rifles where most retailers are selling for $3350-$3500 cad, and the "grey market dealer" comes in at about $3000 cad or a little less depending on exchange, why would one not go that route?

The single biggest advantage importers (that are not simply importing US stock) have is the ability to bring Canadian compliant firearms to market, specifically by ordering with NR barrels.

I have intentions of both a NR Skorpion and MPX, and both would be easiest to buy from Canadian retailers if the were offered as such. But if niether are offered like that, I may as well go the lowest investment route and put savings towards the custom conversion hadn't I?

I fail to see what it is that irg cant provide that others can? If irg method is making them more competitively priced and hard to compete with, why are other retailors not importing the same way?

I dont mean this in a rude way Jon, just curious why other importers insist on a less efficient method. Also, if margins are so tight, why not be the exclusive retailer of your imports, that way you don't have to worry about being able to put a 30% total mark up on your product and struggle to remain competitive. Seems that IRG has proven this to be an effective means of getting firearms into prospective buyers hands at significantly reduced rate, should be able to fit your business too should it not?:cheers:
 
Thread has been de-railed lets bring it back to focus.

It is about the awesome EVO S1.

I told myself the APC was my last purchase for a while.............
 
Just wanted to send a note of thanks for supporting the Canadian firearms community and all the hard work with the RCMP. I will continue to frequent your business to support our local suppliers! Now if you could get a CZ Bren 806 Gen2, I would be very, very, very, interested... lol
 
Great job Wolverine !
Any idea on cost/release date of the Bren ?
Please keep us posted on pre-sale list of the Evo.
 
CZ EVO S1 Scorpion

After 4 years of work we have finally got the EVO 3 S1 Scorpion approved as a restricted firearm in Canada, the magazine capacity will be 5 rds as she is a CV. It is because of our efforts that CZ agreed to design a dedicated semi auto Scorpion. With their (CZ) first effort parts could simply be interchanged between the FA model and the SA model, this would obviously not meet the RCMP standards. CZ were not interested in making a large financial commitment in designing a dedicated SA model until we pointed out that this model would be good worldwide including the huge US market, so they went ahead and developed the EVO 3 S1. This Scorpion was put into production and was an immediate success in the US. Here in Canada we had to wait for the RCMP SFSS to make their determination.

For the last 10 days (since FRT issue) I have been “debating” with CZ about Canadian pricing! We were expected (by CZ) to retail her higher than in the US. I was not going to agree to that as I would be setting ourselves up for accusations of having a monopoly and then gouging customers. At IWA CZ told us that we had exclusivity for the EVO 3 and BREN for Canada, partly due to the fact we had guided CZ through the Canadian approval process and Wolverine has always had their special projects right from the first Scorpion (.380 ACP) and the CZ 858 and CZ 958 which again we assisted with the development of.

For simplicity all prices below are in US dollars.
Normally I would never quote our costs but after the events of the last week or so I feel it is time to set the record straight, as the vast majority of Canadian importers and distributors are not “screwing their Canadian customers.” Initially we were quoted by CZ, a cost of $659 US FOB the factory so I estimated a landed cost of $694. Checking a very vocal Grey Market importer’s web site they had a retail of $803, now remember this includes the US 11% FET so less tax their retail was $715. So they were retailing at $21 over my cost and I need to offer at least a 20% discount to Canadian dealers. CZ were directing me to retail in Canada for $950 + as the Scorpion was quote “A US model”! The maths simply didn’t add up. The daily exchange of e-mails between myself and CZ have, at least on my part, been extremely restrained.

Now we have a Grey Market dealer moving in on the market! I have no choice but to announce our pricing. Remember the above prices are for a Scorpion with no stock, our cost for the stock is $100. CZ have told us they are not interested in making a 18.6 inch barrel for the Canadian market. We are stilling talking to CZ about pinning mags to 5 rds and what that cost may be.

As of today:
Our landed cost $650 US
Canadian dealer $749 US
Canadian retail $849 US add on 35 % exchange rate and the retail is $1,146.15 Canadian dollars plus shipping and tax. If anyone us been screwed it is the Canadian dealer not the retail customer. This is with out the stock cost and possible extra cost for pinning mags.

We have placed an order for 350 pieces and we are told to expect a May delivery, this is part of our initial order of 1,000 units so do not accuse us as a distributor who fails to order inventory.

Any genuine Canadian dealer who carries his own inventory, runs a bricks and mortar retail store, pays good wages to full time professional staff, carries liability insurance, advertises, pays rent or lease and supports Canadian firearms associations will be running expenses of approx 15% so a 20 % return is a mere pittance.

CZ is an extremely important supplier to Wolverine Supplies and I pray that this post will not change our relationship, but the views expressed on CGN this past week have been very disturbing to me as the true nature of the Canadian Firearms Industry business is often untold, for many varied reasons. If the weaners and wankers on CGN insist on always supporting grey market importers they will kill their local Canadian dealers, do that and then you can really expect to get screwed.

Country to what some of you may think I do support free enterprise but as a self employed business owner I will fight tooth and nail for what myself and my team have built up. Read our warranty we stand behind what we sell, we don’t wait to send it back to the manufacture.

I make no apologies for my rant but if you follow CGN, this last week has been a bad week for the Canadian firearms industry.

If you think trucks in Canada our to expensive then why not open a Ford dealership from your Mummies basement, let’s sit back and see how Ford respond! Why should Canadian Firearms distributors react any differently?

Have a good evening.

Hi John,

When you have time can you post a few pics of exactly what will be delivered to customers. So essentially hows its going to look once it arrives at my door step :d
 
Fenceline, your posts are always well written, I suspect you may be an LE officer, certainly well educated, but this "once a handgun always a handgun" puzzles me, is this a regulation (law?) or just another CFC policy? And policy is like that word privilege, a P word that pisses me off! :)

Fenceline does post some well written and informative posts, but his knowledge of firearm legislation leads me to doubt he is a police officer. Most police officers know very little about gun law. Surprisingly, they aren't even required to have an RPAL. Now he may be in law enforcement, and if so, either works/worked in a bureau that dealt with firearms, or perhaps worked with a CFO. Or he could simply be a CFSC/CRFSC instructor. Maybe he's just well read in the regs that apply to his hobby. The point is, I've seen several people try to feel him out on what he does for a living, but I don't ever recall seeing a reaponse. I take it he likes his privacy and I respect that.
 
Lots of Drama on CGN this week it seems between MDC and IRG and now Wolverine.

Welcome to a free market people.

In other news... CZ Evo looks pretty badass :ar15:
 
CZ EVO S1 Scorpion

After 4 years of work we have finally got the EVO 3 S1 Scorpion approved as a restricted firearm in Canada, the magazine capacity will be 5 rds as she is a CV. It is because of our efforts that CZ agreed to design a dedicated semi auto Scorpion. With their (CZ) first effort parts could simply be interchanged between the FA model and the SA model, this would obviously not meet the RCMP standards. CZ were not interested in making a large financial commitment in designing a dedicated SA model until we pointed out that this model would be good worldwide including the huge US market, so they went ahead and developed the EVO 3 S1. This Scorpion was put into production and was an immediate success in the US. Here in Canada we had to wait for the RCMP SFSS to make their determination.

For the last 10 days (since FRT issue) I have been “debating” with CZ about Canadian pricing! We were expected (by CZ) to retail her higher than in the US. I was not going to agree to that as I would be setting ourselves up for accusations of having a monopoly and then gouging customers. At IWA CZ told us that we had exclusivity for the EVO 3 and BREN for Canada, partly due to the fact we had guided CZ through the Canadian approval process and Wolverine has always had their special projects right from the first Scorpion (.380 ACP) and the CZ 858 and CZ 958 which again we assisted with the development of.

For simplicity all prices below are in US dollars.
Normally I would never quote our costs but after the events of the last week or so I feel it is time to set the record straight, as the vast majority of Canadian importers and distributors are not “screwing their Canadian customers.” Initially we were quoted by CZ, a cost of $659 US FOB the factory so I estimated a landed cost of $694. Checking a very vocal Grey Market importer’s web site they had a retail of $803, now remember this includes the US 11% FET so less tax their retail was $715. So they were retailing at $21 over my cost and I need to offer at least a 20% discount to Canadian dealers. CZ were directing me to retail in Canada for $950 + as the Scorpion was quote “A US model”! The maths simply didn’t add up. The daily exchange of e-mails between myself and CZ have, at least on my part, been extremely restrained.

Now we have a Grey Market dealer moving in on the market! I have no choice but to announce our pricing. Remember the above prices are for a Scorpion with no stock, our cost for the stock is $100. CZ have told us they are not interested in making a 18.6 inch barrel for the Canadian market. We are stilling talking to CZ about pinning mags to 5 rds and what that cost may be.

As of today:
Our landed cost $650 US
Canadian dealer $749 US
Canadian retail $849 US add on 35 % exchange rate and the retail is $1,146.15 Canadian dollars plus shipping and tax. If anyone us been screwed it is the Canadian dealer not the retail customer. This is with out the stock cost and possible extra cost for pinning mags.

We have placed an order for 350 pieces and we are told to expect a May delivery, this is part of our initial order of 1,000 units so do not accuse us as a distributor who fails to order inventory.

Any genuine Canadian dealer who carries his own inventory, runs a bricks and mortar retail store, pays good wages to full time professional staff, carries liability insurance, advertises, pays rent or lease and supports Canadian firearms associations will be running expenses of approx 15% so a 20 % return is a mere pittance.

CZ is an extremely important supplier to Wolverine Supplies and I pray that this post will not change our relationship, but the views expressed on CGN this past week have been very disturbing to me as the true nature of the Canadian Firearms Industry business is often untold, for many varied reasons. If the weaners and wankers on CGN insist on always supporting grey market importers they will kill their local Canadian dealers, do that and then you can really expect to get screwed.

Country to what some of you may think I do support free enterprise but as a self employed business owner I will fight tooth and nail for what myself and my team have built up. Read our warranty we stand behind what we sell, we don’t wait to send it back to the manufacture.

I make no apologies for my rant but if you follow CGN, this last week has been a bad week for the Canadian firearms industry.

If you think trucks in Canada our to expensive then why not open a Ford dealership from your Mummies basement, let’s sit back and see how Ford respond! Why should Canadian Firearms distributors react any differently?

Have a good evening.

Well, Mr. Wolverine, I can appreciate the difficult position you are in. There have been some comments on this site of late accusing some vendors and distributors of 'price gouging' and unfair trade practices, that may have been ill-advised and I'm sure are very frustrating for you, but perhaps comments like "weaners and wankers" and "mummies basement" are unnecessary?

It does seem that Canadian vendors are stuck between the proverbial 'rock and a hard place'. They have live within the confines of their agreements with manufacturers and distributors as well as complying with export & import laws while at the same time competing with 'grey market vendors' that more often than not, offer better pricing and access to otherwise unobtainable firearms. At the end of the day, your biggest problem is human nature. Sure, you have some loyal customers, but the majority of people are going to buy from where ever they get the best price. That includes some of cheerleaders on here claiming they will stick with you, 'no matter what'.

I'm not sure what the answer is, but I don't think you'll find your OP to be overly helpful. We've seen other sponsors on here posting emotionally-driven comments about the competition and politics of the firearms business, only to see those posts stirring up heated debates that typically descend into flame wars. This is before CGN Admin deletes the threads and posts stern warnings for all involved, site members and site sponsors.

Is it possible to find a new approach to all this? Perhaps if all the stakeholders in the business, from the manufacturers to the vendors, got together and discussed the problems you are facing, that maybe something could be worked out? You would certainly know better than me. I'm just an end-user, and a plinker, but a concerned one at that. It appears there is some kind of war brewing and and we should all be concerned about that, as it may lead to higher prices and more restrictions. None of us want that.
 
Well for you I will I have the APC 9 as B&T will work with us, you may have to order 30 and they will not be cheap. :) Seriously give us time and we will see what we can do for you.

I too will wait for a NR EVO, hopefully you guys will make it happen. Congrats on the approval and thank you for bringing this stuff in.
 
The "other guy" is just virtual store that has no inventory. It only exist in cyber space.

If you're talking about the same guy I think you are, you are incorrect.

Edit:

the other guy said:
BS. We carry a large inventory in Canada and the USA. I don't recall ever touring you through either warehouse. John please delete this comment as you see fit.

Like I said...
 
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