Cz457 mtr

To illustrate the effects of wind and the importance of flags consider this image . Lapua Polar Biathlon ammo shot this morning . Had a pretty good ragged hole going , until …. , I missed a 180 degree wind direction change just as I touched the trigger . On the last shot no less . This wind direction change was not detectable at the firing position . Ahh , the joys of rimfire :)

URL=https://s1120.photobucket.com/user/Kawiekx250R/media/Lapua%20Polar%20Biathlon.jpg.htm

4 shots with the wind , 1 shot against it . Wind direction change is the only thing that differed .

Wind change may well have switched 180 degrees just as you touched the trigger. Such a sudden and rapid complete reversal of wind direction, as uncommon as they are, may be a possible reason for a notable change in POI. Perhaps there was a vertical component to the wind change as well.

Readers should note, however, that another very common reason for a change in POI is the nature of the ammo itself in the form of a flier. The ammo used in this case is an SK variety, be it Biathlon Sport, SK Rifle Match, or SK Standard Plus, all of which can have fliers. Even better ammo can have them. As Steve Boelter, author of Rifleman's Guide to Rimfire Ammunition and who has shot a lot of different ammos and rifles over the years in testing and competition noted, he would "see at least a few fliers per 50-round box of ammunition regardless of cost or manufacturer." He said that benchrest shooters claim that "high quality match grade ammunition should contain no more than a single flier per 150 rounds." Put simply, fliers occur because they are a fact of life in shooting .22LR.

One cause of fliers is differences in amount of propellant between rounds or differences in priming compound application and distribution in the casing. These are often detected not only on the target but also by the sound of the ammo when fired. At the same time fliers do not always reveal themselves with a audible difference in sound. Fliers or shots that do not have the same POI can be caused by other inconsistencies in the ammo. These inconsistencies include variation in base-to-ogive length, rim thickness, concentricity or run-out, differences in amount of lube on the bullet (a problem not unknown with SK ammo, which uses a greasy lube that can have unequal distribution between individual rounds), differences in bullet diameter or weight, or a combination of some or all of them.

Another cause of fliers is the rifle itself, or more specifically the bore or the chamber/leade. Sometimes irregularities or imperfections here may cause the occasional flier. It must be noted, however, that the small sample size -- "3 groups shot with 3 different ammo" -- can't in any way be conclusive evidence of rifle-induced fliers.

Finally, while there's no reason to believe it necessarily happened here, fliers can be caused by human error. Even very experienced shooters will admit being responsible for errant shots from time to time, as does Steve Boelter in the book referred to above.

In the end, perhaps there wasn't a flier and perhaps the errant shot was caused by a 180 degree change that occurred with a rapidity that was impossible to detect until it was too late. But fliers do happen and they happen with a regularity shooters need to understand. They can be caused by the ammo, the rifle, or the shooter or some combination of these. Wind changes don't make shooting rimfire any more straightforward.

Edit: When I made this post I mistakenly thought the ammo shot with the target above was an SK variety but I see it's Polar Biathlon. My comments still stand.
 
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There is no question that a "flier" could be partly responsible . However , there was no audible evidence to support that . The shot sounded and felt exactly like the others . All shots before and after shot to the exact same POI . Now having said that , it certainly could have been a factor , I just don't think so . I've shot enough rimfire and enough high quality ammo in very accurate rifles to certainly get a feel for what typically happens . Now there is the human factor here as well . Again , this was not a "thrown" shot . Everything went exactly according to plan , except for the darn wind . If I screwed it up , I'd be the first to admit it . At the end of the day , I guess we'll never really know exactly for sure what factors conspired to produce the final result . Rimfire is funny that way . There are no absolute guarantees regardless of the cost of the ammo and rifle system . If there were , we'd all be shooting perfect scores every single time the trigger is pulled . That's not reality . But , it's what keeps shooting interesting for me . I have no illusion that this particular rifle is anything other then what it is , a $975 factory gun . I don't expect perfection . I shared the images as I found them interesting and I thought that other CZ owners or potential owners might as well . Nothing more and nothing less . My take away lesson is that the wind has a significant effect and shooting in the wind without any form of flags is pure guesswork . Plain and simple . Combine the wind with freezing temperatures and the complexity just increased dramatically . Good times :)
 
There is no question that a "flier" could be partly responsible . However , there was no audible evidence to support that . The shot sounded and felt exactly like the others . All shots before and after shot to the exact same POI . Now having said that , it certainly could have been a factor , I just don't think so . I've shot enough rimfire and enough high quality ammo in very accurate rifles to certainly get a feel for what typically happens . Now there is the human factor here as well . Again , this was not a "thrown" shot . Everything went exactly according to plan , except for the darn wind . If I screwed it up , I'd be the first to admit it . At the end of the day , I guess we'll never really know exactly for sure what factors conspired to produce the final result . Rimfire is funny that way . There are no absolute guarantees regardless of the cost of the ammo and rifle system . If there were , we'd all be shooting perfect scores every single time the trigger is pulled . That's not reality . But , it's what keeps shooting interesting for me . I have no illusion that this particular rifle is anything other then what it is , a $975 factory gun . I don't expect perfection . I shared the images as I found them interesting and I thought that other CZ owners or potential owners might as well . Nothing more and nothing less . My take away lesson is that the wind has a significant effect and shooting in the wind without any form of flags is pure guesswork . Plain and simple . Combine the wind with freezing temperatures and the complexity just increased dramatically . Good times :)

Freezing temperatures never (or perhaps only very rarely) improve .22LR accuracy, if for no other reason than it's less comfortable for the shooter and doesn't encourage taking all the time needed for the best results.

As noted above, fliers do not always show themselves with audible differences in sound. Fliers can occur with no apparent reason because variation in propellant and/or primer material is only one cause. The other causes do not need to result in a different sound. Also, as noted above, there's no reason to believe it was shooter error and no reason to blame the rifle with a relatively small number of rounds through it, although either one can be the cause of fliers. Ammo can be a prime suspect in an errant shot as even costly premium ammo can have fliers.
 
Holy Hannah . I never intended this to be a post about absolutes . I have zero interest debating the technicalities of what's possible and what's not . I get your point , but , I was there , you were not , let's leave it at that . Ok ?
 
Holy Hannah . I never intended this to be a post about absolutes . I have zero interest debating the technicalities of what's possible and what's not . I get your point , but , I was there , you were not , let's leave it at that . Ok ?

I don't want to argue and there's no need for it, Hannah or not. I simply wanted to point out to readers some factors other than a sudden 180 degree change in wind direction that might have caused such a flier. There should be no reason for you to show irritation. If you prefer to dismiss additional information, that's your prerogative and I apologize to you for providing it.
 
Well, I've got to say I've never seen the wind have that kind of effect, vertically, at 50 yards. Then again, I don't make a habit of shooting in gale force winds :rolleyes: Just how strong was the wind? I have seen 3/4" to the left or right of the bull, depending on wind direction in switchy conditions, for 1.5" total spread, horizontal.

If I had to put money on one causative factor for that flier, it'd be barrel harmonics/vibration. Your rifle didn't like Polar Biathlon ammo, on that day. Vertical like that, I don't know if there is any ammo out there bad enough for it to be velocity spread. However, I've seen that kind of vertical many, many times when a rifle doesn't like the ammo. It goes away with a different ammo, and the "flier" ammo will shoot fine in a different rifle.
 
The distance was 50 yards and I didn't bother to actually measure the wind speed as I was freezing my arse off at the time and didn't really expect this to happen . But , it's legit . It taught me a lesson I'll tell ya that much . My last 2 out of 3 range trips have been in brutal wind and it's been a challenge to wrap my head around the effects . Trying to see how this MTR is shooting is tough in these conditions to say the least . Wind has a significant effect as I'm sure you know as I'm been painfully reminded .
 
This was not a left to right crosswind as this would obviously created a horizontal dispersion . This was a tail wind that turned abruptly into a strong head wind that caused the drop . This was not a harmonic issue ( rifle and ammo not liking each other ) as the group before and after were in a ragged hole with me shooting in consistent wind . If it were harmonics, there would be very little consistency in every group . I've been there . Imagine shooting in a 10mph tail wind that turns into a 10mph head wind in sub zero cold . The head wind would cause a measurable loss of velocity ( I would imagine ) .
 
Were you shooting over that little berm? I know a few guys that swear they have seen some weird shots when shooting over them.

Ive never necessarily seen it but prefer to not have to shoot over it , i think its a mental thing.
 
Actually , I was shooting over the berm . I never even thought about that . It was weird though . I had one flag set at 25 yards and a streamer on the side of the target board . It was common to see both wind indicators showing opposite wind readings at the same time . Hmmm , I need to think about the berm thing a bit more . I will try to upload a short video of my wind flag ( on a different day though ) .
 
Actually , I was shooting over the berm . I never even thought about that . It was weird though . I had one flag set at 25 yards and a streamer on the side of the target board . It was common to see both wind indicators showing opposite wind readings at the same time . Hmmm , I need to think about the berm thing a bit more . I will try to upload a short video of my wind flag ( on a different day though ) .

The wind flags pointing opposite isnt that uncommon on that range from my experience, you will also see a slight difference from one side of the range to the other. . Although i usually like a flag at 10 to 15 yds.
 
Just thought I'd share some results that I am getting with my new CZ457 MTR . I haven't shot any rimfire for about a 1 1/2 years so it's been super fun to start thinking about this stuff again . Today was really the first time out with reasonable wind . 3 groups shot with 3 different ammo . SK Biathlon Sport clearly had more velocity then SK Standard Plus and SK Rifle Match .







I can only get good groups with SK high Velocity, CCI is a big no no for me. Enjoy your practice.
 
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