CZ858 vs Win94 for bush carbine
- Thread starter Rocket Surgery
- Start date
Rocket Surgery
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
I really don't like arguing on the internet, but let's compare the list of your manual action, 30-06 to the semi-auto intermediate cartridge 858 and Win94:
1. Detachable mag.
2. Handles awesome.
3. Accurate very.
4. Easily scoped.
5. Much/cheap ammo, everywhere!
6. 30/06 is better chambering. More flexibility.
7. Dependable
Do you see how none of the above make this rifle better, or have any use in rugged terrain?
Detachable magazine? Do you really think the 858 is a single shot semi-auto?
Handles better than a 6lb pistol grip semi?
More accurate at 25-50 yards in the bush? My 5 shot proof @ 50yards shows a clover leaf when Wolverine tested the gun for me. The ammo they used was $.18 / shot and from the 70's.
Easily scoped for 25-50 yard shots in the bush? The Win94AE seems pretty easy to scope, and my 858 can be scoped with a cantilever.
Much cheap ammo? If your definition of cheap is 6x the price of practice surplus, or 40% more than 7.62x39 hunting ammo, I think I'm being trolled. Sure it's available everywhere, but more than 30-30? but how many boxes of hunting ammo per year do you actually use for hunting? I use one, maybe two.
30-06 is better chambering? Ok.
More flexibility? At 25-50 yards, how is a 165g xp3 going to kill deader than a 170g soft point on a deer.
Dependable? I bet you can't even being to compare your reliability to the 858. I can put thousands of rounds of ammo down the pipe of my gun to test, can you? Is the Win94 really unreliable?
In the end I think it comes down to this: You're talking about a pump gun on a thread about the 858 and Win94. You didn't read the OP, and you called the Win94 and 858 bush gun 'wannabes'. You said the 30-06 has better price and availability than the 30-30, and that the 858 doesn't have a detachable mag.
"Get this coz it's dope" means that you posted a list of crap regarding a pump gun, with no sensible reasoning, in a thread comparing the 858 with the Win94.
All I have to say is congrats, you've wasted a part of my weekend. Do you even hunt in rugged terrain?
I have shot the 7600 pump before, handled it, and considered buying one. I'm not saying they're crap. If semi's were banned I'd probably switch to one. What I'm wondering is why you started posting about one in an 858/Win94 thread and call them wannabe carbines?
1. Detachable mag.
2. Handles awesome.
3. Accurate very.
4. Easily scoped.
5. Much/cheap ammo, everywhere!
6. 30/06 is better chambering. More flexibility.
7. Dependable
Do you see how none of the above make this rifle better, or have any use in rugged terrain?
Detachable magazine? Do you really think the 858 is a single shot semi-auto?
Handles better than a 6lb pistol grip semi?
More accurate at 25-50 yards in the bush? My 5 shot proof @ 50yards shows a clover leaf when Wolverine tested the gun for me. The ammo they used was $.18 / shot and from the 70's.
Easily scoped for 25-50 yard shots in the bush? The Win94AE seems pretty easy to scope, and my 858 can be scoped with a cantilever.
Much cheap ammo? If your definition of cheap is 6x the price of practice surplus, or 40% more than 7.62x39 hunting ammo, I think I'm being trolled. Sure it's available everywhere, but more than 30-30? but how many boxes of hunting ammo per year do you actually use for hunting? I use one, maybe two.
30-06 is better chambering? Ok.
More flexibility? At 25-50 yards, how is a 165g xp3 going to kill deader than a 170g soft point on a deer.
Dependable? I bet you can't even being to compare your reliability to the 858. I can put thousands of rounds of ammo down the pipe of my gun to test, can you? Is the Win94 really unreliable?
In the end I think it comes down to this: You're talking about a pump gun on a thread about the 858 and Win94. You didn't read the OP, and you called the Win94 and 858 bush gun 'wannabes'. You said the 30-06 has better price and availability than the 30-30, and that the 858 doesn't have a detachable mag.
"Get this coz it's dope" means that you posted a list of crap regarding a pump gun, with no sensible reasoning, in a thread comparing the 858 with the Win94.
All I have to say is congrats, you've wasted a part of my weekend. Do you even hunt in rugged terrain?
I have shot the 7600 pump before, handled it, and considered buying one. I'm not saying they're crap. If semi's were banned I'd probably switch to one. What I'm wondering is why you started posting about one in an 858/Win94 thread and call them wannabe carbines?
Buy a 7600 Carbine in 30/06. Top it off with a 1x4 or 1.5x5 in low rings and it will head and shoulders in all respects over the two wannabees you mention.
This one's a 308, but you get the picture.
1. Detachable mag.
2. Handles awesome.
3. Accurate very.
4. Easily scoped.
5. Much/cheap ammo, everywhere!
6. 30/06 is better chambering. More flexibility.
7. Dependable
Winchester model 94 and the CZ 858 Wannabe's?
The winchester has been getting it done for a hundred years and the CZ's for over 50 years...... hardly wannabe.
I've got a 760 carbine and while I do like it it's not perfect.
Ardent
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Better yet: Ruger Mini-30 580+ series. More accurate than any of my '58's were, tougher, and stainless steel. It also has integral scope mounts and comes with rings. In my factory stainless folder stock too, it has a better folding stock setup that's even more svelte than the '58's folder. Plus it looks 'normal' when dressed in its fullstock and that often smooths over relations.
As for .30-06 Remingtons... Yep, the cartridge kicks the crap out of the .30-30 and x39. But can't warm up to the gun.
As for .30-06 Remingtons... Yep, the cartridge kicks the crap out of the .30-30 and x39. But can't warm up to the gun.
Don't call the 858 an "assault rifle" because it isn't. It is a semi auto only sporting rifle. Assault rifles have full auto or burst capability. The anti's troll this site and they are just looking for crap where we misnomer these guns and then use it against us.
Model 7, Rem 760, VZ 858, Marlin/Win 1894/1895, Encore 24" barrel. All are about the same size and weight.
I'm partial to the lever gun with a peep sight or the Encore / Model Seven with a scope sight, either 2.5x20, 1.5-5x20, or 4x fixed. You can keep the VZ and the 760 because of optical options and triggers, respectively.
The Encore with a .24" is the same size and weight as a .30-30, but you can chamber a much better cartridge of your choice and get 24" barrel velocities. Scope mounts much nicer too.
I'm partial to the lever gun with a peep sight or the Encore / Model Seven with a scope sight, either 2.5x20, 1.5-5x20, or 4x fixed. You can keep the VZ and the 760 because of optical options and triggers, respectively.
The Encore with a .24" is the same size and weight as a .30-30, but you can chamber a much better cartridge of your choice and get 24" barrel velocities. Scope mounts much nicer too.
blasted_saber
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- A blue part of Ontario
Well, the 3030 wins out in ammo selection. I'd take a 170gr soft point over the 123gr soft point of the 858 any day. But when you compare the 123gr SP to a Hornady LE 160gr its not even close in terms of velocity and energy. And you're shooting a much bigger bullet
bearkilr
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Nowhere, ......just past the middle
Someone may tell you to keep the Encore since it's a single shot and really doesn't fit into this discussion.
- Location
- The Conservative part of Ontario
I love my '94, but when you said it has a "better" trigger than the 858, I did a double take. Triggers on '94's generally take getting used to and are notoriously heavy, so if the other one is worse still... Holy crap man, that's bad.
I'm used to my '94, and have carried it many many miles in the bush. I'm sure I can get my first shot off at least as fast, or possibly even faster than a clip loaded rifle. And you only need one well placed shot right?
Rocket Surgery
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
I have a feeling the triggers on the vz58 were designed to be held down haha
No really, my win94 has a better trigger for sure than my 858.
