Cz958 Review, Accuracy, and Status

Repro77 said:
I think converting full autos to semi to sell them is pretty clear cut as far as our laws are concerned. I don't agree with them, and I'd love to be able to buy CA's, but thats been law for an awful long time.
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Pre-2005 CZ858s that were not reclassified were also built on modified full auto receivers but were deemed to be just fine because of technicalities. There's nothing clear cut in our laws.
 
The Joe-Man said:
Pre-2005 CZ858s that were not reclassified were also built on modified full auto receivers but were deemed to be just fine because of technicalities. There's nothing clear cut in our laws.
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So the rifles prior to 2006 did not have a notch that was welded closed? Why are they exempt then?
 
These rifles were made up on receivers that had never been assembled into finished rifles. The modifications to semi auto only were therefore deemed to be part of the process of the manufacture of semi auto receivers.
If receivers were sourced from complete rifles, then the resulting rifles are prohibited converted autos.

The finished semi auto rifles are essentially identical, but the law does differentiate between a converted rifle, and a receiver altered in the course of production.
 
Outwest1213 said:
So the rifles prior to 2006 did not have a notch that was welded closed? Why are they exempt then?
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Procedural differences. The RCMP's position is that the pre-2006 rifles were made from converted receivers that had never been assembled as full rifles. Post 2006 the rifles were assembled as full auto, then disassembled, modified to semi-auto and reassembled. The end product is the same, a semi auto rifle built off a formerly full auto receiver, so without intimate knowledge of our bass ackward laws why would CZ think there would be a problem?
 
The Joe-Man said:
Pre-2005 CZ858s that were not reclassified were also built on modified full auto receivers but were deemed to be just fine because of technicalities. There's nothing clear cut in our laws.
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See below..

tiriaq said:
These rifles were made up on receivers that had never been assembled into finished rifles. The modifications to semi auto only were therefore deemed to be part of the process of the manufacture of semi auto receivers.
If receivers were sourced from complete rifles, then the resulting rifles are prohibited converted autos.

The finished semi auto rifles are essentially identical, but the law does differentiate between a converted rifle, and a receiver altered in the course of production.
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This is the difference why some were deemed CA's, and others not. Doesn't make sense, I know, but it is what it is.

And CZ (or the importer) should have known that.
 
Repro77 said:
See below..



This is the difference why some were deemed CA's, and others not. Doesn't make sense, I know, but it is what it is.

And CZ (or the importer) should have known that.
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Ummm... yeah. Those were the technicalities I mentioned and later described in my next post #104. I'm not sure why you felt the need to further explain it to me. You're right though, it doesn't make sense.

Wolverine has maintained that they were not aware of the change in the way the rifles were produced and I believe them. I also have a hard time getting too pissed at CZ because we are probably their only client with such strange laws around full-auto conversion. They are so nonsensical that a slip up is unfortunate but kind of understandable. All IMHO, of course.
 
The Joe-Man said:
I also have a hard time getting too pissed at CZ because we are probably their only client with such strange laws around full-auto conversion. They are so nonsensical that a slip up is unfortunate but kind of understandable. All IMHO, of course.
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Oh baloney. These aren't just screws that were ordered and imported. Lots of laws and regs.

You would think that our laws being what they are surrounding CA/auto/semi, etc, that CZ would have/should have been told whats acceptable, and what isn't. Was the ordering as simple as "we want 10,000 CZ858 semi autos"? I don't think so. I mean, I would think they would have been told whats acceptable, and what is not in terms of manufacture, and legal requirements for import and classification. Now, on what end these changes happened, or how it happened, who knows. Plus, being their only client that has laws like this (as you put it), you would think they would have been made aware of all of this, seeing as this type rifle(variant) was/is a military rifle that was/is full auto-semi auto.

All IMHO, of course.
 
Who knows indeed. I'm choosing to give them the benefit of the doubt and will greatly enjoy my CZ958 when it becomes available. I understand if others choose not to.
 
mildcustom2 said:
I think he's refering to CZ screwing people out of their guns by using converted auto receivers and he's not willing to line their pockets with more money until they fix it by sending everyone all new receivers.
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Perhaps I am out of touch with the in's and out's of the contractural agreement that CZ had with the importer of these rifles, but what you guys are saying is that CZ knew all along what could and couldn't be sold to the Canadian importer regarding the manufacturing/origin of the said receiver.

If that's the case, I would like to see written proof of it, simply because I like to see things in writing, actual facts - and I am giving you the benefit of the doubt here that you are 100% correct - but having something to refer too other than he said she said is a good thing.
 
all of this wasn't CZ's fault..or the importer,,..yes our canadian laws are stupid,,,and yes the cz issue is because of the retards at the RCMP not knowing their ass from a hole in the ground,,,but at the end of the day,,,this whole mess rests on the shoulders of a certain western canada dealer not happy with another dealer,,,if they hadn't stirred the pot,,,none of this would be happening,,,THAT dealer opened pandora's box,,,and this is the result,,the only good thing that might come out of this,is we might actually get some laws reformed,,so we may win a little something in the end,,,
 
Mr Wolverine said:
I am surprized at the accuracy, I did expect better. Will change out the butt stock for one that provides a good cheek wield, mount a scope and check her ourselves ASAP. I just need the sun to shine. :)
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The platform its based on has proven accuracy, now one can finally(!) take a scope properly, I bet it is capable of good accuracy with a good fitting stock.
 
BenL said:
Perhaps I am out of touch with the in's and out's of the contractural agreement that CZ had with the importer of these rifles, but what you guys are saying is that CZ knew all along what could and couldn't be sold to the Canadian importer regarding the manufacturing/origin of the said receiver.

If that's the case, I would like to see written proof of it, simply because I like to see things in writing, actual facts - and I am giving you the benefit of the doubt here that you are 100% correct - but having something to refer too other than he said she said is a good thing.
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In the Bahamas working so unable to give you what you want. Others will chime one.


hootguy said:
all of this wasn't CZ's fault..or the importer,,..yes our canadian laws are stupid,,,and yes the cz issue is because of the retards at the RCMP not knowing their ass from a hole in the ground,,,but at the end of the day,,,this whole mess rests on the shoulders of a certain western canada dealer not happy with another dealer,,,if they hadn't stirred the pot,,,none of this would be happening,,,THAT dealer opened pandora's box,,,and this is the result,,the only good thing that might come out of this,is we might actually get some laws reformed,,so we may win a little something in the end,,,
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Wrong gun dude. That's the Swiss Arms your refering too not the CZ858.
 
I love these 7.62 cambered guns, Ended up ordering a Vz58 with full stock ( synthetic ) and then buying a vz 2008 particle board stock so it looks like the CZ.
 
BenL said:
Perhaps I am out of touch with the in's and out's of the contractural agreement that CZ had with the importer of these rifles, but what you guys are saying is that CZ knew all along what could and couldn't be sold to the Canadian importer regarding the manufacturing/origin of the said receiver.

If that's the case, I would like to see written proof of it, simply because I like to see things in writing, actual facts - and I am giving you the benefit of the doubt here that you are 100% correct - but having something to refer too other than he said she said is a good thing.
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Just a question here, did the RCMP ever release the 'evidence' they have that shows how they proved the guns were converted from previously assembled automatic rifles? I don't recall reading about it, though there has been an absolute s##t ton of interweb spent on this topic, I could have missed it. I recall CZ and Wolverine denying that the rifles had come to be via the methods the RCMP accused them of....
 
kennymo said:
Just a question here, did the RCMP ever release the 'evidence' they have that shows how they proved the guns were converted from previously assembled automatic rifles? I don't recall reading about it, though there has been an absolute s##t ton of interweb spent on this topic, I could have missed it. I recall CZ and Wolverine denying that the rifles had come to be via the methods the RCMP accused them of....
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No, as i understand that is an administrative process.

They asked for infos and got denied.

Sure they could fight it but $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
 
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