D & H AR Mags- A little advice please?

Tommy2.0

Tommy2.0

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Hey Guys,
Quick thread on D & H mags. Anyone have an opinion on them. I have a pile of condor pouches and Tapco mags. They don't get along at all. I need cheap, functional GI mags. Cheapest ones I can find are the D & H but I don't want any jamming. Jamming drives me crazy!!! Anyone with experience with these??????
 
I recently bought a D&H mag, so far it works perfectly with my 16" piston carbine. It came stock with a Magpul anti tilt follower. I thought it was sweet that it came with an upgrade that I would have added anyway.

I put a rubber L Plate on the bottom to help when I drop it.
I also have a Tapco mag. The D&H feels lighter then the tapco, if that matters.

Like I said, it's a recent purchase, and only time will tell anything more at this point.
I'd buy another.
 
The CF only uses D&H mags as far as I know. I've come across a few bum mags but that's because they've led a very abused life so they're bound to have issues sooner or later. As far as USGI mags are concerned they're some of the best ones out there. Try and get ones with the teflon finish that the CF uses, a lot more durable than the dry film the US uses.
 
Farmboy said:
Rod, why not just get mags and gear that work?

Go here, and buy these Magpul ones.
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Never been to you're site before, very nice. Great price on the Pmags also!! I like Pmags also but my new pouches are too tight for reinforced plastic mags. Pmags probably wouldn't work for me just like the Tapco ones. Between the few GI's I have and the 12 Tapco I'm not short on mags, just need some that'll fit the gear.

Thanks very much for the reply, I will keep an eye on your site next time I need something!!
 
I will have a vid up on my youtube channel showing the issue I'm talking about. The Condor Tactical vid will be up in a week. Any thicker/ribbed mag doesn't come out of these pouches and are a nightmare to get in.
 
Farmboy said:
Rod, why not just get mags and gear that work?

Go here, and buy these Magpul ones.
Click to expand...

Love your responses Farmboy! Almost always makes me laugh...

That beig said, he's absolutely correct, get cheap gear and you may end up buying twice! I think generally PMags have one of the best reps for reliable mags... And they're polymer and don't deform when dropped and abused. Check they test vids on the MagPul YouTube channel.
 
FWIW, the Tapco PMags shape is quite a bit more different (blocky) than the Magpul PMags.

I have the Condor nylon AR mag pouches, and I really can't fit the TAPCO PMAGS in them - they're just too blocky. I'll check tonight, but IIRC, the Magpul PMAGS fit VERY snug inside them. That said, standard STANAG AR mags (what the pouches were designed for) go in and out from those pouches very smooth. Undoubtedly the PMAGs would be more durable, but if you have a good follower, you shouldn't have much of a problem with FTF's (I have 10 D&H mags, and they have an anti-tilt follower in them).
 
The Condor Tactical vid will be up in a week.
Click to expand...

DON'T DO IT!!!

Rod, as an instructor yourself you should be using quality gear that works.

If you're using Condor, my first thought is "If he takes shortcuts on his gear, does he take shortcuts on training?"

Teaching people skills that might save their life requires one to also take responsibility on what else is passed on to the client and others. Clients look to their instructors for answers and information. Up the quality and value of what you do. Shoot me an email to darren@oneshottactical.com and we'll get you hooked up with gear.


Love your responses Farmboy! Almost always makes me laugh...
Click to expand...


:D

Sometimes I try to be funny and it comes across really bad, other times I'm cranky and it comes across funny, and some times my posts have the desired effect :D

A few times I feel I need to shock people to jolt their brain with regards to how they think about their gear.
 
Farmboy said:
DON'T DO IT!!!

Rod, as an instructor yourself you should be using quality gear that works.

If you're using Condor, my first thought is "If he takes shortcuts on his gear, does he take shortcuts on training?"

Teaching people skills that might save their life requires one to also take responsibility on what else is passed on to the client and others. Clients look to their instructors for answers and information. Up the quality and value of what you do. Shoot me an email to darren@oneshottactical.com and we'll get you hooked up with gear.

QUOTE]

Very sound advice. About 10 years ago, I prided (sp?) myself in going cheap and making it work. That got too frustrating. I passed on the inexpensive chinese gear to my students at the paintball field. They are happy to horse around with the free gear I gave them. Now I run only quality gear or a trusted name brand gear that's been deployed and tested. With mags and pouches, no shortcuts are made here, just wise purchases at good prices from many dealers on this board.

At the ORA CQB matches , we often find what works and what does not work. Sometimes quality / brand name/reputable gear does not work (read: laughing so hard, I almost swallowed my bridge) mainly because of operator error and unfamiliarity with the gear setup, pouch location, magazine retrieval under stress, etc etc etc; not always the gear's fault. :evil:

The good quality gear is just a start. Getting your kit sorted out and then testing it under match intensity is another challenge. :D

Many CQB'ers discover this fact; what works in your mirror at home or at your home gun club may not always work well (read: smooth is fast) when I'm yelling at you to "Advance then fire". :)

Buy once, cry once. Then never look back!

Cheers all!

Barney
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Personally, I'm of the opinion if you can't write off the expense of buying gear as a business tax deduction, you really have to triage what is important and what is not. If you're procuring gear as a hobby using after tax money and not generating income off it, it's one of the most financially inefficient things to do to buy the most expensive thing you can.

In other words, If you're contracting or starting/operating a business, go big. If you're a talentless schlub like me, working a 9-5 salaried job and using after tax income to accumulate gear - set a budget, and the things that are critical don't cheap out on. The things that are ancillary, be frugal with and look for alternatives.

In particular, I trust a lot of old military surplus load carriage systems. For any AR/M14 shooting, the 82 pattern Canadian Forces webbing is the way to go - keeping in mind this system doesn't work very well with PMAGS, but works great with aluminium mags. Likewise for 858/SKS - Chi-com SKS or AK47 bandoleers work great.

As for the magazine debate - one minor thing to consider is if you have to hoof it a lot, Google searching yields that PMAGs are about 1.4 oz heavier than aluminium mags. This works out to about 4 rounds of 55 gn FMJ. If you were to carry 6 fully loaded PMAGS (if 30 rounders weren't prohibited), you'd be carrying around as much weight as 6 fully loaded aluminium mags PLUS almost enough loose ammo to load up a 7th.
 
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Hey Guys,
This thread sure turned into something else. So I guess the D & H mags are ok but everyone likes the Pmags better, got it. Thanks to everyone for contributing, great dialogue!!
 
I have both D&H and Pmags. D&H are a good mag. Fit mag pouches well, fit rifles well and are lighter than Pmags. Order from Saskatoon GunWorks in the bulk pack and save some cash.
 
I have a 10 pack from Saskatoon Gunworks. Ran perfectly so far in a Norinco AR. 700 ish rounds so far.

Having said that, I plan on getting 10 PMAGS from One Shot Tactical.

Over the years I can see mags getting scrapped as people step on them at courses and some group shooitng drills. Become unreliable. Finding this with my Glock mags (mag follower is missing a chunk of plastic...) so it seems advantageous to have extras.

Last week I started a thread on which were the best AR mags. The majority said PMAG.
 
Well - I was a bit reluctant, given that I had bought 12 D&H's from TSE a few months back for $19 a piece and now other suppliers are carrying them as low as $16 a piece.

I put in an order for 10 PMAGS from One Shot as well. What swayed me to pick up the PMAGS is the fact that they are well known for their durability, so even used, there will always be larger base of willing buyers, as the question of the quality of PMAGS comes less into play vs the quality of used aluminium ones. In effect, aluminium mags are more of a consumable good, PMAGS are more of a durable good.

3 years ago, I recall PMAGS being in the $30-40 range, then the $25 range, and now the $20 range.

This is perfectly understandable, given that the overall global economy is in a deflationary spiral (much like the Great Depression), you're going to continue to see prices for all consumer goods declining. If you have a cash position right now - this is the time to dump that cash for tangible, fungible goods that can function almost like currency (that is - goods that like for like, are effectively one in the same and are durable, and low enough in value to facilitate most common transactions). Now is NOT the time to go into debt to do so, but what we are seeing is a temporary increase in purchasing power of certain non-essential goods as market uncertainty causes consumers to be less willing to spend, which in turn causes inventory for producers of those goods to build up, which forces them to reduce their prices to attract prospective buyers.

This is why the price for things you can live without are going down, but the prices for things you can't live without are staying flat or going up.

Deflation scares the pants out of most Keynsian economists (i.e. - EVERYONE in politics, especially Stephen Harper and the Conservative party) and spurs them on to "do something" about it - even though deflation is a natural part of the business cycle, a necessary reset that flushes out toxic investment. That "do something" is to print oceans and oceans of currency to try to stimulate demand for consumer spending. This has the long term effect of destroying the purchasing power of the currency, even if it does in the short term generate demand and economic activity. Ultimately, what this means is in the long term, the prices for everything will end up going through the roof but in all probability, your income won't go up with it (or at least fast enough to keep pace). This is why it's important to remember these important principles: "Cash is trash" and "The government is not your friend."

In conclusion, if you have the cash at this moment - GET TANGIBLES. PMAGS, D&H Mags, any magazines for that matter - are tangibles and IMO a VERY good investment.

This is important, as I would not be surprised in 2-5 years to see the price for magazines (and everything else) back at the 2009-2010 price range, or much, MUCH higher. Even if not - it's nice to know I have a healthy supply of kick-butt magazines :)
 
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