DA P762 v.s Tokarev TT33 v.s. Zastava M57/ M57A

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hayday

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Eastern Ontario
According to my testing:

762x25 guns.jpg


Dominion Arms P762 –

Chinese pistol derived from the excellent Sig P226 but stretched to handle the more powerful, flatter shooting, historic 7.62X25 round. Chrome-lined bore! A blast to shoot and stupidly accurate. Accuracy comes, in part, from a seemingly tight chamber in the neck area. This creates reloading challenges. Forget about reloading easier to find 71-95 grain .309-.312 bullets – including lead cast sized bigger than .309. Tight neck means that some hot surplus 7.62x25 steel case ammo will stick in the chamber – which doesn’t in the other two. Case head and feed ramp area not well supported. Double Action trigger is too heavy to be useable. Doesn’t throw its brass as far as the M57 or the TT. Supplier has seriously reneged on promises to bring in extra mags – by at least 2 years! Some Americanskis would pee their pants if they could buy this gun. They can’t.

Tokarev TT33 –

Totally underrated design! Beats anything else from the era for long range performance (look on youtube for the guy hitting an 80-yard plate over and over again - off hand - with a WWII era T-33)! Removable trigger sub assembly is cool and practical. WW2 Nazis hated these things. Cheap with affordable mags available everywhere. Surplus ammo available starting at $5 a box. Better gun than what the Ruskies adopted afterward.

Zastava M57 –

Great quality – especially for the crazy low price of these BRAND NEW pistols. “Ups the game” of the Tokarev TT33, especially with the slightly longer grip that holds a 9th round. The magazine safety - found on newer production guns - is worse than useless – but easily snapped off – allowing for a clean mag drop. Accurate gun but most units shoot very low with fixed sights. Front sight already too short to file down and taller rear blades are not available - so I hope you know a good gunsmith. Captive recoil spring is a great improvement over the TT33 design.

We Canadian should have the choice of buying the M57A which has a nice FACTORY slide mounted safety (and no I'm not talking about the goofy US import guns with retrofitted safties). Also let’s all get after the importer to bring in the excellent Zastava factory optional one-piece rubber grips – shown in the photo. It would save the rest of you a trip to Serbia (although it is nice there at this time of year).

To you CZ52 guys – sorry I never had my hands on one.
 
gewehr76 said:
Well essentially you are comparing 2 pistols
Each m57 i handled had lose front sight
Otherwise good comparison
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I wouldn't put it as a two gun comparison (as opposed to three) The Zastava has enough improvement over the original TT that it deserves its own recognition. In fact in actual testing I vote as follows:

Good - Tokarev TT-33
Better - Dominion Arms P762
Best - Zastava M57

To be fair the Zastava came out on top - in my books - only thanks to the great special rubber grip used (made for the gun by Zastava and not available for the TT - which has a shorter frame, in the grip area) and the adjustable rear sight. If the test gun didn't have these improvements it would tie with the P762.
 
If I can offer a point...

Now, I'm not sure if this is something that is inherent to the Sig design that was copied (never owned a real Sig) or more to the fact that the gun is designed to hold 17 rounds of 7.62x25 (thus a large grip) but for me I find the grip to be almost uncomfortably large. To reduce the size of the grip I've chopped the front finger grooves off the rubber grip panels to reduce the length of the grip which seems to have helped. I've also swapped the mag release from the left side of the gun to the right so that I can hit the button with my index finger so as not to shift my grip too much. Thoughts?

That said, does anyone know if there are any Sig grip panels that will fit this pistol in order to reduce the width of the grip?
 
I've had all three of these pistols at the same time as well. My P762 has a larger bore and chamber than my TT-33's. My hand loaded .308 bullets don't shoot that great. Even the surplus ammo does't seem to be that accurate... That's probably just me. I'm still developing my pistol technique. I installed a Wolf Sig 226 trigger lightening kit in mine. Apparently there's two kinds available depending on what type of interface your hammer spring has with the frame. A plastic one or mine was metal. The double acting action is still very stiff and unusable. The single action is great now.

I love my TT-33. I seem to be able to shoot it best. I can't say why.
 
MuthaFunk said:
I've had all three of these pistols at the same time as well. My P762 has a larger bore and chamber than my TT-33's. My hand loaded .308 bullets don't shoot that great. Even the surplus ammo does't seem to be that accurate... That's probably just me. I'm still developing my pistol technique. I installed a Wolf Sig 226 trigger lightening kit in mine. Apparently there's two kinds available depending on what type of interface your hammer spring has with the frame. A plastic one or mine was metal. The double acting action is still very stiff and unusable. The single action is great now.

I love my TT-33. I seem to be able to shoot it best. I can't say why.
Click to expand...

How were the sights on your Zastava M57?
 
DaveMachine said:
If I can offer a point...

Now, I'm not sure if this is something that is inherent to the Sig design that was copied (never owned a real Sig) or more to the fact that the gun is designed to hold 17 rounds of 7.62x25 (thus a large grip) but for me I find the grip to be almost uncomfortably large. To reduce the size of the grip I've chopped the front finger grooves off the rubber grip panels to reduce the length of the grip which seems to have helped. I've also swapped the mag release from the left side of the gun to the right so that I can hit the button with my index finger so as not to shift my grip too much. Thoughts?

That said, does anyone know if there are any Sig grip panels that will fit this pistol in order to reduce the width of the grip?
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I don't think there is any way to reduce the grips other than modifying the factory ones. I like big grips - but I know that is personal.

I mentioned that another issue with the P762 is the relative lack of support for the case head. This shows that situation.

unsupported case head.jpg
.

I've actually had to throw some spent re-loadable cases away because of serious feed ramp bulging. That only happened with a fast powder, at near max loads.
 
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st1264 said:
I'm a little confused... the "Yugo Military M57 TT" surplus version that TradeEx has right now, differs in what way from the newly manufactured Zastava M57? If I buy one, I definitely need the wraparound grips, as the thin grip was the major reason for selling the TT-33 I had.

https://www.tradeexcanada.com/content/military-grade-yugoslav-m57-tt-762x25
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The ex military ones are very similar to the current production new ones - differing only in that the ex military ones have the lanyard loop. I'd go for a new one for the extra 30 bucks - as these come in the box with an extra mag and have never shot corrosive ammo. Oversized grips make all the difference. See the picture in my opening post. These can be found on ebay and via Slickguns.com.

If you use a holster watch out for this. The Zastava has its slide release retaining clip reversed compared to the orientation of the one in the TT33. It make perfect sense to have the open end of the clip to the rear so that the clip can't move backward under recoil. However, the slide release retaining clip can easily come off when the gun is withdrawn from a tight holster. You lose the slide release retaining clip and the gun becomes no-functional.

lock clip.JPG
 
Isn't the military version more desirable? Or are these so common that it makes no difference?

I figured the military version doesn't have an external safety, no magazine disconnect and most likely, made better than a newly manufactured pistol. Just guessing here but this is the pic of what they have.

zastm57.jpg


I didn't like the regular Tokarev's ergonomics with it's short, thin grip - but these have a longer grip (9rd mags) and I could possibly get thicker or wraparound grip plates to compensate. Otherwise, I really like the 7.62x25 round.
 
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st1264 said:
Isn't the military version more desirable? Or are these so common that it makes no difference?

I figured the military version doesn't have an external safety, no magazine disconnect and most likely, made better than a newly manufactured pistol. Just guessing here but this is the pic of what they have.

zastm57.jpg


I didn't like the regular Tokarev's ergonomics with it's short, thin grip - but these have a longer grip (9rd mags) and I could possibly get thicker or wraparound grip plates to compensate. Otherwise, I really like the 7.62x25 round.
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Th ex military ones are as-new with no special collectors providence. Neither has a safety in Canada. Commercial ones that come into the States do have a safety - on the slide. Surplus ones going to the States also have safeties but these are retrofits and butt ugly (read above). Zastava M57 guns have a longer grip - to accommodate an extra round. A TT33 mag won't fit a M57 but the reverse works - with the longer mag sticking out a bit in your TT33. Only the Zastava can handle the nice rubber one piece grips shown in the opening photo. TT33 guys you are out of luck in terms of having this grip option.

Commercial guns have a worse than useless magazine safety (which can be snapped off in seconds).
 
The folks who have designed and built the DA P7.62 have had to lengthen the grip and chamber/ slide ejection port area to deal with the fact that the 7.62X25 cartridge is a lot longer (in overall length) than the SIG 226's 9X19 cartridge. In fact, 7.62X25 is even significantly longer than 45 ACP. As an aside, it puts this extra length to good use - delivering near .357 magnum kinetic energy levels - in factory loadings.

TT-33 guns and the related Zastava M57 fit small hands well because they are single stack and have no long pull double action trigger system. On the P7.62, from the trigger where the finger rests to the back of the frame where the web of the hand would sit measures 3.130" on double action. In my opinion, the double action feature is there only in the interests of completeness and/ or for emergency use only. If you had a few extra milliseconds you would want to draw back the hammer with your shooting hand thumb and take an easier, more precise single action shot. The single action measurement is 2.825".

The DA pull is pretty long and heavy but smooth enough with a clean break (on mine). Improving the DA pull is fairly complex and involves replacing parts with those from a SIG. Going to a lighter hammer spring isn't a good choice if you are using suplus ammo with hard primers.

Still a guy with average sized hands is pretty Okay using the DA P7.62
 
hey
I have both P762 and tt33
when it comes to ammo as I have stated in other posts try and stay away from the coated ammo. only shoot copper washed both mine would shoot fine for first few mags then the coating from the casing would jam up the guns.
at one point I needed to use my cleaning rod from sks to ram the empty casing loose from my P762. the tt33 wouldn't return to battery. once I switched to copper washed ammo not one problem..except needing more ammo..lol
other problem is P762 extra mags as I'm told may not be coming in for along time.
Glenn.
 
Excellent thread! As a "new to handguns" shooter, I looked at all three and went with the TT-33 as my first larger than .22 pistol.
I first had a chance to shoot it last week and was very pleased. Very first mag I shot 4/7 were in the black with two in the bull at 15m. Better than I do with my Ruger .22. Smiles achieved.
 
I can second this from the rifle side more so. My SKS and SVT-40 gum up with the laquer coated ammo, but cycle all day with cooper wash. My TT-33 has worked flawless so far with copper wash, the 100 rounds it's seen. I'd expect the TT-33 to gum up as well.

tazzharm said:
hey
I have both P762 and tt33
when it comes to ammo as I have stated in other posts try and stay away from the coated ammo. only shoot copper washed both mine would shoot fine for first few mags then the coating from the casing would jam up the guns.
at one point I needed to use my cleaning rod from sks to ram the empty casing loose from my P762. the tt33 wouldn't return to battery. once I switched to copper washed ammo not one problem..except needing more ammo..lol
other problem is P762 extra mags as I'm told may not be coming in for along time.
Glenn.
Click to expand...
 
Hey
I had picked up full crate few years ago ($289ish) when I first got my TT33, and made my shooting the TT33 unlikeable as the slide wouldn't return to battery. I had over 3/4 of the crate left when I got my P762 and when it jammed up I thought at first I had a nice paper weight on my the extractor had it and it was jammed in the barrel , the slide wouldn't budge . I let it cool down and still nothing, took my sks cleaning rod (ensuring no live round) and rammed it down the barrel to free it up. tried shooting again and third shot it jammed again. last time I used those. lucky for me someone wanted the rounds and traded for some 45acp.
anyways copper washed rounds only now though haven't tried the new production rounds only surplus.
too bad no extra mags for the P762 my tt33 I have four in total and all work great.
Glenn.
 
PinkyPlinker said:
Excellent thread! As a "new to handguns" shooter, I looked at all three and went with the TT-33 as my first larger than .22 pistol.
I first had a chance to shoot it last week and was very pleased. Very first mag I shot 4/7 were in the black with two in the bull at 15m. Better than I do with my Ruger .22. Smiles achieved.
Click to expand...

Good on you! Why do you think it is that you were able to shoot so well with the TT-33? Did yours come with holster and extra mags?
 
tazzharm said:
Hey
I had picked up full crate few years ago ($289ish) when I first got my TT33, and made my shooting the TT33 unlikeable as the slide wouldn't return to battery. I had over 3/4 of the crate left when I got my P762 and when it jammed up I thought at first I had a nice paper weight on my the extractor had it and it was jammed in the barrel , the slide wouldn't budge . I let it cool down and still nothing, took my sks cleaning rod (ensuring no live round) and rammed it down the barrel to free it up. tried shooting again and third shot it jammed again. last time I used those. lucky for me someone wanted the rounds and traded for some 45acp.
anyways copper washed rounds only now though haven't tried the new production rounds only surplus.
too bad no extra mags for the P762 my tt33 I have four in total and all work great.
Glenn.
Click to expand...

You'll be surprised by this. Put your surplus 7.62x25 rounds in a reloading press. If you don't reload 7.62x25 your 9mm set-up will work.

With the bullet seating die in-place raise the ram and reseat the bullet by the tiniest amount - so that you feel the bullet move.

You will usually hear and feel a distinct crack as the bullet re-seats by a couple of thousands.

Repeat. All rounds which have had the bullet re-seated in your P762 will no longer jam!

WHAT? You just fixed a super-common problem with old surplus ammo. The mil spec bullet sealer went super hard with age and was holding the bullet (like crazy glue) with too much force. When the round lights up you get crazy over pressure and stuck cases. Fix this excess bullet bite and the ammo shoots very well - with no signs of excess pressure. You are welcome.
 
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tazzharm said:
hey
I have both P762 and tt33
when it comes to ammo as I have stated in other posts try and stay away from the coated ammo. only shoot copper washed both mine would shoot fine for first few mags then the coating from the casing would jam up the guns.
at one point I needed to use my cleaning rod from sks to ram the empty casing loose from my P762. the tt33 wouldn't return to battery. once I switched to copper washed ammo not one problem..except needing more ammo..lol
other problem is P762 extra mags as I'm told may not be coming in for along time.
Glenn.
Click to expand...

My P762 had a chamber that was so tight I had to get the chamber re-reamed. It handled all ammo properly after that, but its seriously unsupported chamber made problems, creating bulges in the unsupported areas when sub max loads were fired in brass cases. This can weaken cases and eventually cause case ruptures - a problem which otherwise seriously afflicts Glocks.

I got fed up with the lack of available mags for the P762 and got someone to make me a 7.62x25 double stack 1911 (Para Ordnance).

It is a great set-up especially for shooting disposable steel cases in the Winter.

7.62x25 Para.jpg
 
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