DAC 394 Review and Range Report

novega

novega

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Calgary, AB
Okay, here's the deal:

Background:
I shoot two GLOCKS and was looking for something a little different when I ordered a DAC 394 from Dlask, at first I was a little worried that I might be getting in over my head but the dude on the phone said that it was already machined and just needed fit/assembly and finish. He said "if you can rebuild and put a carburator together, then there's a pretty good chance you can build this gun." So I figured right on, I've rebuilt carbs before...let's do it!

Assembly
When the pistol arrived, it looked like this.
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Here's a better view of the internal parts.
img_0921.jpg


Okay, first problem was that nothing fit...not surprising right, after all he did say that they required fitting. I "assumed" that meant that parts where fairly close to the sizes and shapes they needed to be, but nope! (Keep in mind, these are only my experiences, I'm obviously not a Gunsmith and I'm pretty broke so my tool budget was almost non-existant)
- The hole for the trigger pivot pin in the frame was too small, so I used a drill bit to get the hole almost right, then used a NC tap to take a little extra metal off around the hole, finalized it with a reaming using the drill bit.
- The locking block was slightly too wide to settle into the frame, used a 10" single cut flat file to take some metal off.
- The slide stop lever was too thick to fit beside the locking block and the lever wasn't bent properly. I used the file to thin it out a bit and some gentle force over the edge of an old running shoe to put a better bend in.
- The bearing plate for the decocking lever wouldn't fit into the frame properly because of slag/casting flash in the pocket. I should have done like others did (in the DAC394 assembly thread) and machined the pocket out but I'm poor, so instead I used a $19 Jobmate Rotary Tool (2 weeks ago) and $30 500 piece accessory kit (last weeks sale) to chamfer the edge of the plate around the ridge in the pocket. Still worked 100% but isn't as pretty.
- Trigger bar isn't shaped properly where it rubs on the hammer pivot pin, it's not bent properly to fit into the frame smoothly and seemed kinda rough. Flat file, steel wool and polishing tip on rotary tool to smooth it out.
- All internals needed to be filed/grinded/polished and trial fitted, then metal removed again. LOTS of trial and error.
- Hammer needed tons of work to clear the plastic hammer stop block, Needed lots of filing to make hammer/sear engagement work. (Thanks to "Joe-Boy" for the help in the other thread)
- There are 4 ridges in the magazine well that need to be removed if you plan on using Sig P228 mags (and you will, see "Range Day" section for details) Sorry guys, the only way you're gonna remove these properly seems to be a file and it's SLOW.
- When the mag is inserted, it rubs on the trigger bar and binds the trigger pull. I filed the magazine sides down, they're very thin but I'd rather ruin a magazine than make the trigger bar too thin. It's still causing some resistance on the trigger but I'll live with it for the time being.
- Slide and "firing block" were full of filings. Disassembled and spent quite a bit of time on my hands and knees looking for safety block spring.
- The barrel doesn't clear the locking block on the frame. This one REALLY threw me for a loop but it turns out the feed ramp on the barrel is either way too long or the locking block is way too tall, so I shortened the feed ramp. File, then fit, then file then fit...

Those were the main issues I had, but tons of other small ones along the way. My fingers have been sore, swollen and painful for the last week from assembling then disassembling, rinse and repeat. I seriously feel like one of those old farts with chronic arthritis in his hands.

Finishing
Here's what my frame looked like two days ago... Excuse the bad lighting but I was going for the "highly polished steel look". I determined it showed scratches too easily and was starting to rust.
img_0936.jpg
img_0937.jpg


So yesterday I decided I'd use Silica Ceramic paint (1200 deg header paint) and baked it on in the toaster oven. Turned out AWESOME!!!! Way better than I expected. I was stupid and did ALL my parts, don't be an idiot like me and paint your internals:p
Here's what I ended up with
img_0963.jpg

img_0959.jpg


Range Day
So today being Labour Day, I got bored, everything is closed but I figured I could go put some rounds downrange with my GLOCKS. I was hesitant to even bring the DAC for a couple reasons...
#1. I knew that it's DA trigger wasn't working properly, trigger bar is 'deflecting" off the hammer
#2. I didn't believe it would actually fire...the hammer didn't even look like it was hitting the back of the firing pin
#3. Even if it did fire, I put it together and I'm not a gunsmith. Really makes you wonder how much you trust yourself.

I brought it along just in case I ran into someone who might be able to offer me some advice, who knows right? A lot of old timers just love giving advice (right or wrong) to younger guys and if nothing else it provides me with someone else's opinion on what my problem could be.

I uncased my pistols (forgot the trigger lock and registration at home too coincidentally) and decided I'd give the DAC a try...I put a single round in the mag and load 'er up....take aim at a 10m paper target, thinking to myself that the gun will NEVER fire...#### the hammer (DA isn't working remember) put my finger on the trigger, reminding myself that the hammer wasn't hitting the firing pin earlier this morning.... squeeze the trigger, fully expecting to hear a "CLICK" but BAM!!!! she goes off ...and so do I:D

Load up the magazine 2 or 3 rounds at a time until I went through another 24 rounds. Here's what I ended up with...
25 rounds @ 10 yards
img_0979.jpg

I'm VERY impressed but let's go further....

I put up a new target and run it out to 15 yards. Start shooting 3-5 rounds per mag, then all of a sudden "BOING!!!" and my rounds hit the floor....WTF???:confused:
img_0971.jpg

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The lips on the plastic baseplate of the Dlask mag broke, so now I'm forced to load one round at a time, by hand, and the slide isn't sticking open after the last shot (obviously)

25 rounds @ 15 yards
img_0984.jpg

I'm still VERY impressed but I'm kinda curious whether I'm doing my part or not, so I run out a new target and shoot it with my GLOCK 22
img_0981.jpg


Overall / Summary
I'm not a great shot...I'll be the first to admit it. The DAC 394 seems to be shooting high and to the right (opposite of my usual low-left grouping with my GLOCK) I'm no bullseye shooter but my focus is on grouping, once I can get a tight "ish" group then I'll adjust my sights.

PRO'S
My initial impression is that the DAC 394 is just as accurate and fun to shoot as the GLOCK 22 but has the added bonus of being 9mm so it's a little cheaper. I shot 52 rounds outta her on the first day at the range.

CON'S
"But Novega, what are the cons of the gun?" It's not as comfortable in my hand, doesn't operate in DA (right now) the magazine was total and utter crap, it's heavy, I had two (2) failure to fires from Wolf reloads (primer strikes looked okay and one went off after I tried to fire it again, so I'm not sure whether I should blame the gun or not) The stock grips suck!

The Next Steps
- I've already ordered 2 MecGar P228 mags and they'll be in this week, hopefully they fit and function better than the Dlask ones. I hear MecGar are pretty good quality though so I'm not gonna sweat it.
- I need to take a real good look at the trigger bar and figure out what (if anything) I can do to cause it to not "deflect" when trying to pull the weight of the hammer and compress the mainspring. I thought about taking a coil or two off the mainspring in order to give it a lighter pull thus less resistance but I think I'll investigate other options first. Maybe just a bend of the trigger bar's tab or maybe I can angle it? need a better look
- Not having the "dot and stick" coloured in/ whited out is kinda annoying. All black sights don't do it for me.
- I have a stripped screw hole for the grip plate on the right hand side..been meaning to look for a bolt/screw
- I think I should have bought a set of those Hogue Grips, the DAC plastic ones are pretty crappy.
- MOAR BOOLEEETSSSS !!!!!!!!!!


Final Thought:
I felt kinda torn on this gun, it was WAY more work than I assumed/ was led to believe. My hands are filled with cuts,scrapes and bruises. They're stiff and sore, my finger tips are swollen and painful. I paid just over $200 (that I didn't really have) for something that I fully intended to sell on the EE once I completed it... BUT now that I've went through the hardships of making it, I wouldn't sell it for the world. I've learned a lot and gained a whole ton of confidence. My regret is only buying one, now that I know what I'm doing, the next one would be easier.
 
Thanks for the great range report!!!!!! It gives me hope that mine will actually work when it's done. I totally understand about the swollen and sore fingers....I don't think my files have seen this much use in the last 10 years :D ...I'll post a report once I have it all done and have had a day at the range.
Thanks again.....
 
Thanks for the range report!

I actually tought about buying one myself, the educative value of this project is priceless. If it would only be a matter of building it, that would be no problem but I'm not tooled to fit and finish a pistol :\

Maybe in a few years if I manage to buy a house with a garage :D
 
A big thumbs up novega !!

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Hopefully you'll have all the bugs worked out soon.

__

Question: How much play does your barrel have in the muzzle bushing of the slide when it is locked up ?? The way I understand it one of the touted features of the Sig is the accuracy due to the "Barrel Bind" lock up system.

I find mine has a few thousands of an inch play ...... I'm thinking either the back of the barrel isn't rising high enough in the slide to "bind it in the bushing, or the barrel is a little too skinny..... Hmmmm ....

:cheers:
 
The list of issues you had with fitting almost exactly mirrors my own. I'm currently at about the same level of completion as you are, but I want to get DA working properly before I take her to the range. I was a bit surprised by how much the trigger pull was affected when I tried to operate the gun with a magazine inserted. I get pretty good DA/SA performance with no mag but lose DA completely as soon as the mag goes in. Hopefully a little more work on the trigger bar will solve this. I don't want to have to modify every magazine I ever use with this gun so I feel that modifying the internals makes more sense. Thanks for posting your results. Your finish looks like it turned out pretty well. I'd be interested in hearing how it holds up after a while.
 
superbikeracer said:
Great report! Thanks for all the info. Big question, would you do it again if you could go back?
Click to expand...
Knowing what I know now...absolutely!

I learned a LOT about Sig-type pistols during this project, I put the gun together with my only reference being a Sig P226 armorers manual and advice from this forum. I'm a Glock guy and to me they're the ultimate all-around handgun, they set the standard for me ,so thats what I use as a benchmark and compare against.
I'm used to getting a new part and it pretty much just dropping right in. Things are pretty modular with Glocks, parts off my G22 interchange with my G31c and their functioning isn't complicated at all. This has springs and levers all over the place, a DA/SA trigger mechanism and a de-cocking lever. They were all mysteries to me prior to starting the project, despite carrying an M11 for a few years while in the Army. I knew kinda-somewhat how the gun worked but I didn't really care. Now I know exactly what each part does and how they interact.

There's no doubt in my mind that I could have another one put together and up to this level of function, in a matter of a day or two. I put this gun together with my only reference being a Sig P226 armorers manual and advice from this forum, hence the delay.

joe-boy said:
Question: How much play does your barrel have in the muzzle bushing of the slide when it is locked up ?? The way I understand it one of the touted features of the Sig is the accuracy due to the "Barrel Bind" lock up system.

I find mine has a few thousands of an inch play ...... I'm thinking either the back of the barrel isn't rising high enough in the slide to "bind it in the bushing, or the barrel is a little too skinny.....
Click to expand...
My barrel is pretty tight in the slide when locked up. I'm not exactly sure what the best way to measure it is?
- I tried measuring the "angle of movement" by sticking a piece of 16" long dowel down the barrel and using a big protractor...came up with about 3-5 degrees overall (including any flex in the dowel, the play between the dowel and the inside of the barrel, and the play in my slide to frame contact) and when I tried the same thing with just the barrel and dowel, it looked around 2-3 degrees
- Using the "depth guage" on my set of digital calipers and measuring movement in the barrel during lockup I found 0.003 variation up and down, and 0.08 side to side (this measurement seems suspect and I'll have to check it again)

So yeah, my barrel to slide play seems very minimal. My slide to frame play seems a bit loose though... the slide rattles if you shake it, but hopefully it won't loosen up anymore.:redface: I think the "break-in" should be minimal after another box or two of ammo.

zerodb said:
The list of issues you had with fitting almost exactly mirrors my own. I'm currently at about the same level of completion as you are, but I want to get DA working properly before I take her to the range. I was a bit surprised by how much the trigger pull was affected when I tried to operate the gun with a magazine inserted. I get pretty good DA/SA performance with no mag but lose DA completely as soon as the mag goes in. Hopefully a little more work on the trigger bar will solve this. I don't want to have to modify every magazine I ever use with this gun so I feel that modifying the internals makes more sense. Thanks for posting your results. Your finish looks like it turned out pretty well. I'd be interested in hearing how it holds up after a while.
Click to expand...
Re: Magazines and DA
Yeah, I was pretty surprised too when I saw how the DA pull was ruined by the mag to trigger bar contact. After a few minutes of filing the mag body and realizing how thin the metal was to begin with, I really thought a lot about thinning out the trigger bar instead. I took a few passes with the file and 400grit sandpaper and then went back to the mag body.
My main concern was this: I truly wasn't happy with the Dlask magazine from the time I first got it in my hands, it felt very cheap, the metal was thin, the follower and spring seemed to snag a bit. I started to really question how close they are to real Sig mags or the MecGars I'd ordered? I think they're way off, we'll see later this week when my new mags arrive.
If the MecGar mags cause bind, the trigger bar will be thinned out for sure since I know that the MecGars are within tolerances.

On a side note for those who didn't know..... You can use Beretta M9 magazines (not 100% sure if the M9 mags are the same as the 92F mags? Sorry, not a Beretta guy) in the a M11/P228. Just keep sliding the mag into the magwell, you'll see a wear mark where the magazine catch rubs the M9 mag body...use a cut off tool and a dremel to make the cut out just a hair below the wear mark (if you cut above the wear line, your magazine will be sloppy and loose) You'll have to adjust your next cuts according to fit, but they'll fit. I found one of the old M9 magazines I had from my days in the Army and it fit great, no rubbing, no binding, no feed problems. Would I use these mags if this was a carry gun? Heck no, (then again, I don't think I'd bet my life on a gun I built myself:p ) but they'd work great for range use if you can't find magazines for a Sig or you're like me and just happen to have a couple kicking around.

Re: My finish
Thanks. I've shown it to a couple folks and they think it looked good, most thought it was factory finish. Once I tell them what I really used, they screw their faces up and try to nit-pick on the little imperfections (ie: where I touched it in between curing cycles, the scratches from where I slipped with the screwdriver trying to insert the mag release locking "nubby") I just figured it was cheaper than parkerizing or bluing, better than just regular spraypaint and stops the rust.

After curing it has a "chalky" feel almost like a powder coat. It discolours your hands at first but now the places I touch a lot (ie:slide) have worn smoother and don't leave residue on my hands.

Like anything else though, it's going to require an on-going evaluation and a bit of longer term testing before I try using it on anything else. Seems durable enough though.
 
I dont want to sound like a #### but it sounds like a real piece of crap :) Its kinda scary that these are being sold like this (they obviouslly need alot more work than a inexperinced assembler can do), sounds like someone is going to get hurt.....
 
OZZ said:
I dont want to sound like a #### but it sounds like a real piece of crap :) Its kinda scary that these are being sold like this (they obviouslly need alot more work than a inexperinced assembler can do), sounds like someone is going to get hurt.....
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Your right !!! Somebody should do something before there is a massacre :eek: We need a faceless bureaucrat from the Nanny State to put a stop to this for our own good ...... Think of the children !! *Sob*

:bangHead:
 
joe-boy said:
Your right !!! Somebody should do something before there is a massacre :eek: We need a faceless bureaucrat from the Nanny State to put a stop to this for our own good ...... Think of the children !! *Sob*

:bangHead:
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Very funny, only massacre will be your handy work blowing up in your face or someone elses that you sell it to sometime down the road.

I`m just saying you dont know what you are doing so MAYBE its a good idea to have someone who knows what they are doing build it for you.

Just like doing your own automotive work when you dont know what the f**K you are doing is not a good idea,right?

And again I`m sorry but #### workmanship=#### and this gun will get a bad rep becasue of it.
 
OZZ said:
I`m just saying you dont know what you are doing so MAYBE its a good idea to have someone who knows what they are doing build it for you.
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Well, your entitled to your opinion, but your making an assumption that nobody building these kits knows what they are doing .... it's hardly a complicated device, were not talking about the Space Shuttle here. :rolleyes:

Also, I gotta say, I admire your 'Can't Do' attitude !! :p It's thinking like that that brought us out of the dark ages of Independance, self reliance, and hard work to the glorious welfare state that we've become !!

:cheers:
 
Caveat emptor

OZZ said:
...Just like doing your own automotive work when you dont know what the f**K you are doing is not a good idea,right?...And again I`m sorry but s**t workmanship=s**t and this gun will get a bad rep becasue of it.
Click to expand...

He's got a valid point.

While it's great that these kits are giving people the opportunity to learn the gun's function, the problems will start as soon as these supposedly completed pistols begin to appear at gunshows and on the Equipment Exchange. There will be some cunning sellers who will not give full disclosure. There will be a lot of ignorant buyers who will be stung with something that won't meet their expectations. These disappointed buyers will then bad-mouth the 394 and the Dlask brand.

I'm a little surprised that Dlask would take this kind of risk with what is, in effect, their reputation.
 
I figure the best way to learn about anything is to dive in and get your hands dirty. I don't know what you could do in the process of putting this gun together to make it any more dangerous than a commercially finished pistol. Even if you somehow managed to damage something to the point of being unsafe, you should be able to recognize it. Common sense would tell you to check basic function before trying to fire it. Anyone too stupid to follow basic safety rules or foolish enough to fire the gun when it is unsafe is going to do the same thing with a factory gun (or car, or blender, or vacuum cleaner) and Darwin themself out anyway.
 
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