Damn, I suck at shooting a pistol.
- Thread starter DaveC
- Start date
heavenIsAlie
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Abbotsford
i ditto this. im not bad and hopefully ill move up to good, but really good? i doubt it
saskgunowner101
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- middle of Sask
There's nothing wrong with shooting different distances. My comfort zone is 5-15 meters, after that groups start to really spread. I think starting at 20 or 25 meters is like starting off with a .22 at 100, and your deer rifle at 250. Sure, you'll eventually get there, but kind of hard to self diagnose what you might have done right or wrong. Just my opinion though.
I was in the same boat as you are now. I started off shoting at 7 yards. My target was printed on a letter size paper. Well, the shots were shotgun pattern on the letter sized paper.
I use a DAO pistol (SIG 226 DAK). After 6000 rounds, here is what I learnt:
- dry fire helps. Watch the movement of the sight picture when you squeezed the trigger. If the sight picture moves, you are jerking the trigger (or anticipating the recoil).
- when actually firing the pistol, lock your wrist and the elbow. Your shoulder should stay relax. Try not to tense up your shoulder or you will get tired pretty quick.
- squeeze the trigger slowly. This will slow down your rate of fire. Learn how to walk before run.
- your non trigger hand should support about 60% of your grip. Leaving your trigger hand more focus on the trigger squeeze.
- try different target shape. I cannot do the full solid circle. I used a half solid circle.
- practice and practice.
Now when I shoot, my 10 shots grouping at 7 yd is 1 to 1.5 in, 10 yd is 2 in, 15-20 yd is around 3-4 in. I am still practising and I still want to get better. I do agree with other that SA is easier to shoot but DA gives me a better trigger control. Plus my trigger pull is the same evertime.
I use a DAO pistol (SIG 226 DAK). After 6000 rounds, here is what I learnt:
- dry fire helps. Watch the movement of the sight picture when you squeezed the trigger. If the sight picture moves, you are jerking the trigger (or anticipating the recoil).
- when actually firing the pistol, lock your wrist and the elbow. Your shoulder should stay relax. Try not to tense up your shoulder or you will get tired pretty quick.
- squeeze the trigger slowly. This will slow down your rate of fire. Learn how to walk before run.
- your non trigger hand should support about 60% of your grip. Leaving your trigger hand more focus on the trigger squeeze.
- try different target shape. I cannot do the full solid circle. I used a half solid circle.
- practice and practice.
Now when I shoot, my 10 shots grouping at 7 yd is 1 to 1.5 in, 10 yd is 2 in, 15-20 yd is around 3-4 in. I am still practising and I still want to get better. I do agree with other that SA is easier to shoot but DA gives me a better trigger control. Plus my trigger pull is the same evertime.
To each his own:
Here is my own - told as if we were at the range together.
I am right handed.
Practice at the range at which you use most of the target paper, but never miss it - we are here to learn our errors, not impress ourselves.
My position - freestanding with feet spread fairly wide with left foot slightly forward and hips thrust forward until the lower back locks up stiff.
Feet flat - not leaning onto your toes or heels.
Arms up - right one nearly straight to the gun - left elbow bent - no forcing - it should feel natural and if you close your eyes and bring the gun up, it should centre with the target when you open - if not, shift your feet a little.
Grip the gun with your strong hand - squeeze it until it trembles - ease off until it settles - you are shaking hands with your daughters new boyfriend - firm - bring your other hand into place - however you prefer - I'll discuss options in a while.
Now squeeze with your weak ( my left) hand and relax your strong hand as you watch the sights move on the bullseye.
If you have one hand fighting against the other in your hold, this is bad - very bad - they must each hold the gun steady independent of the other.
Practice squeezing and relaxing alternate hands until you have the sights staying on the bullseye all the time.
I will say it again - there must be no fighting or forcing except of the gripping fingers ( not the trigger finger) against the same hand.
Once you can do this, include the trigger pull in the same exercise - it must be independent of the hold.
A little about the trigger pull - When the trigger releases, it allows the trigger finger to move and the force of the hand which was pulling on the trigger is also relaxed as the hammer falls and the primer lights up and the powder charge is set off and the bullet scoots out the barrel.
That was a long sequence of events and during that time, the gun was being jerked one way by the hand as the sear released and then maybe bumped again as the trigger hit a stop and also somewhere in that time, the hammer began to fall, making a new direction of movement and then the hammer hit and recoil etc.
My point in all this is - This is a very active time - keep the gun as steady as possible all the way through it.
If you were putting a little side pressure on the trigger, or one hand was fighting the other, or you needed to take a leak, expect it to make a big difference.
Both hands share the firm grip of the gun.
Post # 2 follows
Here is my own - told as if we were at the range together.
I am right handed.
Practice at the range at which you use most of the target paper, but never miss it - we are here to learn our errors, not impress ourselves.
My position - freestanding with feet spread fairly wide with left foot slightly forward and hips thrust forward until the lower back locks up stiff.
Feet flat - not leaning onto your toes or heels.
Arms up - right one nearly straight to the gun - left elbow bent - no forcing - it should feel natural and if you close your eyes and bring the gun up, it should centre with the target when you open - if not, shift your feet a little.
Grip the gun with your strong hand - squeeze it until it trembles - ease off until it settles - you are shaking hands with your daughters new boyfriend - firm - bring your other hand into place - however you prefer - I'll discuss options in a while.
Now squeeze with your weak ( my left) hand and relax your strong hand as you watch the sights move on the bullseye.
If you have one hand fighting against the other in your hold, this is bad - very bad - they must each hold the gun steady independent of the other.
Practice squeezing and relaxing alternate hands until you have the sights staying on the bullseye all the time.
I will say it again - there must be no fighting or forcing except of the gripping fingers ( not the trigger finger) against the same hand.
Once you can do this, include the trigger pull in the same exercise - it must be independent of the hold.
A little about the trigger pull - When the trigger releases, it allows the trigger finger to move and the force of the hand which was pulling on the trigger is also relaxed as the hammer falls and the primer lights up and the powder charge is set off and the bullet scoots out the barrel.
That was a long sequence of events and during that time, the gun was being jerked one way by the hand as the sear released and then maybe bumped again as the trigger hit a stop and also somewhere in that time, the hammer began to fall, making a new direction of movement and then the hammer hit and recoil etc.
My point in all this is - This is a very active time - keep the gun as steady as possible all the way through it.
If you were putting a little side pressure on the trigger, or one hand was fighting the other, or you needed to take a leak, expect it to make a big difference.
Both hands share the firm grip of the gun.
Post # 2 follows
Post # 2
We are talking single action trigger here.
If you have a very light trigger, you may use the pad, but I rather use the joint of the trigger finger it is more powerful and positive - the difference between a pry bar and a hydraulic jack . With lots of triggers, you can feel the trigger creep with the joint, because you can move it so slowly.
Now a little on the thought process.
Don't decide NOW and pull the trigger.
When we were taking driver training, they told us to look far off down the road and your brain will take over aiming the car and steering it evenly between the line and the shoulder. If we constantly look at the line and the shoulder and the fenders, we will wiggle down the road like a snake.
When aiming the gun, imagine a laser line from your muzzle to the bull. The bullet slides down this line to the target. Imagine as you are tightening the trigger, that it is a matter of making that bullet slide down the line.
Envision the bullet doing the trip down the laser to the bull and your brain will take over the trigger pull. This helps to keep your hand steady until after the bullet has left home.
Now - back to our hold.
As I grasp my handgun with my right hand, there is a large unsupported area on the grip - I can wrap my left around and cover it and pile my fingers up like cordwood on the front of the grip, but as I do my alternate hand squeezing exercises, I find that my sights are moving - a lot. When I tighten up both hands in my hold, my thumbs and fingers all tend to fight - one against the other.
BUT - If I hold with right, then lay my big old thumb up the bare space on the grip, the fingers go under the grip and come up the other side to sqeeze the back of my right hand.
The heel of my left extends down under my wrist joint and helps to lock it up and my left pinky is against the other side of that joint.
Now - back to the squeezing exercises and I do better.
Firm squeeze with the right and lots of thumb pressure ( simple pressure with no twists) with the left. We are just filling in the unsupported side of the grip and locking up the right wrist with the left hand.
The grip strength with the strong ( right for me ) hand will tend to lessen as you shoot - keep it constant.
Two final repeats on that - no fighting among members and slide the bullet all the way to the target.
It is not the squeezing the trigger so much as the release when it lets go that jiggles the gun.
Another hold that I have enjoyed - the spider hold - left fingertips just very lightly touch the right hand fingers and thumb like a spider sitting - so as to not interfere with the recoil at all. The muzzle flip and recoil are the last effects we have on the bullet so keeping them constant by a uniform grip is important.
Double up on your hearing protection - it allows you to concentrate - shoot alone if you feel any peer pressure - escape into your own little world.
That was my own.
We are talking single action trigger here.
If you have a very light trigger, you may use the pad, but I rather use the joint of the trigger finger it is more powerful and positive - the difference between a pry bar and a hydraulic jack . With lots of triggers, you can feel the trigger creep with the joint, because you can move it so slowly.
Now a little on the thought process.
Don't decide NOW and pull the trigger.
When we were taking driver training, they told us to look far off down the road and your brain will take over aiming the car and steering it evenly between the line and the shoulder. If we constantly look at the line and the shoulder and the fenders, we will wiggle down the road like a snake.
When aiming the gun, imagine a laser line from your muzzle to the bull. The bullet slides down this line to the target. Imagine as you are tightening the trigger, that it is a matter of making that bullet slide down the line.
Envision the bullet doing the trip down the laser to the bull and your brain will take over the trigger pull. This helps to keep your hand steady until after the bullet has left home.
Now - back to our hold.
As I grasp my handgun with my right hand, there is a large unsupported area on the grip - I can wrap my left around and cover it and pile my fingers up like cordwood on the front of the grip, but as I do my alternate hand squeezing exercises, I find that my sights are moving - a lot. When I tighten up both hands in my hold, my thumbs and fingers all tend to fight - one against the other.
BUT - If I hold with right, then lay my big old thumb up the bare space on the grip, the fingers go under the grip and come up the other side to sqeeze the back of my right hand.
The heel of my left extends down under my wrist joint and helps to lock it up and my left pinky is against the other side of that joint.
Now - back to the squeezing exercises and I do better.
Firm squeeze with the right and lots of thumb pressure ( simple pressure with no twists) with the left. We are just filling in the unsupported side of the grip and locking up the right wrist with the left hand.
The grip strength with the strong ( right for me ) hand will tend to lessen as you shoot - keep it constant.
Two final repeats on that - no fighting among members and slide the bullet all the way to the target.
It is not the squeezing the trigger so much as the release when it lets go that jiggles the gun.
Another hold that I have enjoyed - the spider hold - left fingertips just very lightly touch the right hand fingers and thumb like a spider sitting - so as to not interfere with the recoil at all. The muzzle flip and recoil are the last effects we have on the bullet so keeping them constant by a uniform grip is important.
Double up on your hearing protection - it allows you to concentrate - shoot alone if you feel any peer pressure - escape into your own little world.
That was my own.
For me, follow through is what you happens after you squeeze the trigger. Don't forget there is still a lot going on after you squeeze/pull the trigger. The fraction of time it takes for the hammer to fall onto the firing pin, the time it takes for the bullet to travel down the barrel, the moment the bullet leaves the barrel and what you are doing shortly after it leaves the barrel is what I consider 'follow through'. I don't profess to be an expert but what I described happens very quickly and will affect accuracy. I think it's important to have a good hold, good stance, sighting and breathing technique but if you want to be accurate these factors have to be consistent and 'automatic'. For them to be 'automatic' it requires practice......meh, what do I know.....YMMV.
lineofsight
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Lower Mainland, BC
Take one shot at a time.
Check stance, check grip (barrel straight line from arm, firm... good description by Solar), conscious orientation of elbows on way up, hold head straight, think of body angle/slightly forward, front sight on target, trigger straight back and constant rate, hold trigger straight back, wait a second while keeping front sight on target.
Gun should have fired at some point, keep gun pointed down range and bring it back to body, relax a couple seconds, repeat - many times. If things not work out while looking at target for a bit, start over, then take shot.
Check stance, check grip (barrel straight line from arm, firm... good description by Solar), conscious orientation of elbows on way up, hold head straight, think of body angle/slightly forward, front sight on target, trigger straight back and constant rate, hold trigger straight back, wait a second while keeping front sight on target.
Gun should have fired at some point, keep gun pointed down range and bring it back to body, relax a couple seconds, repeat - many times. If things not work out while looking at target for a bit, start over, then take shot.
I'm basically a newbie handgun shooter,I now have about 2000 rounds down the pipe at our outdoor range. When I took the range safety course I had very good accuracy at 20 yards,this was back in September,since then we have frigid temperatures,so I've been out shooting anywhere from -5c to -18c, 3-4 weeks ago I quit smoking,then as of Monday I switched to decaff coffee,well I went out today,cold but calm day and I could barely hit paper at 20 yards! Good thing I'm reloading now,its obvious I need alot more range time.
Wow, some of this advice is poison, couldn't be more wrong.
How many of you teach people how to shoot?
Holding the gun firmly (correctly) while pressing the trigger straight back and keeping your front sight on the target are all that matters.
If you do these three things correctly it doesn't matter if you hold the gun upside down and press the trigger with your pinky...something we demo all the time to new shooters.
+1 for starting off closer than 20m. Try 5m.
jl
How many of you teach people how to shoot?
Holding the gun firmly (correctly) while pressing the trigger straight back and keeping your front sight on the target are all that matters.
If you do these three things correctly it doesn't matter if you hold the gun upside down and press the trigger with your pinky...something we demo all the time to new shooters.
+1 for starting off closer than 20m. Try 5m.
jl
Last edited:
Finally some good advice .. As a firearms instructor and avid shooter I have been reading some of these posts and just shakin my head.
First off why on gods green earth are you shooting at 20 yrds?? As a new shooter 5-7 yrds max.. here is the thing.. Because all pistols have such a short barrels (short sight radius) any smigeion the sights are off will be amplified the further back you get. A 3 inch group at 7 yrds becomes a 6 inch group at 10, an 8 inch group at 15, a shotgun pattern at 20. My advice would be to move closer. When you sight your rifle do you start at 400 yrds?? Most guys put them through the same hole at 100yrds then move back to 200 and so on .. same thing with a pistol..
I believe it was said earlier .. practice does not make perfect .. good practice makes perfect .. you can practice all you want .. without proper instruction you will just get really really good at doing something wrong.
Shooting is pretty easy a gun is a gun is a gun .. if you can shoot you can shoot, it shouldn't matter what gun you use the principles are all the same.
All of the shooting basics can be trained into muscle memory(the sub concious) . I know for a fact my stance, my grip, my trigger pull and follow through is always the same I don't even have to think about it. The only concious effort I have to make when I walk up to the firing line is a good clean sight picture. The rest is automatic.. I prove this to new shooters by walking up to a target at 5 yrds and shooting a magazine with my eyes closed and you can cover the group with the palm of your hand ... when I use the sights you can usually cover the hole with a patch.
The very most important thing you can do is trigger control and sight picture. the others can be off a bit and you will get by.
You stated that all your shots go to the left .. if you are right handed this was caused by placing your finger too far into the trigger guard and on the trigger. If you use too much finger to manipulate the trigger you will have a tendancy to squeeze it at an angle rather that straigh to the rear. When the sear breaks breaks from the hammer the final rearword movement of the finger causes the muzzle to shift left and the shot strikes to the left.
First off why on gods green earth are you shooting at 20 yrds?? As a new shooter 5-7 yrds max.. here is the thing.. Because all pistols have such a short barrels (short sight radius) any smigeion the sights are off will be amplified the further back you get. A 3 inch group at 7 yrds becomes a 6 inch group at 10, an 8 inch group at 15, a shotgun pattern at 20. My advice would be to move closer. When you sight your rifle do you start at 400 yrds?? Most guys put them through the same hole at 100yrds then move back to 200 and so on .. same thing with a pistol..
I believe it was said earlier .. practice does not make perfect .. good practice makes perfect .. you can practice all you want .. without proper instruction you will just get really really good at doing something wrong.
Shooting is pretty easy a gun is a gun is a gun .. if you can shoot you can shoot, it shouldn't matter what gun you use the principles are all the same.
All of the shooting basics can be trained into muscle memory(the sub concious) . I know for a fact my stance, my grip, my trigger pull and follow through is always the same I don't even have to think about it. The only concious effort I have to make when I walk up to the firing line is a good clean sight picture. The rest is automatic.. I prove this to new shooters by walking up to a target at 5 yrds and shooting a magazine with my eyes closed and you can cover the group with the palm of your hand ... when I use the sights you can usually cover the hole with a patch.
The very most important thing you can do is trigger control and sight picture. the others can be off a bit and you will get by.
You stated that all your shots go to the left .. if you are right handed this was caused by placing your finger too far into the trigger guard and on the trigger. If you use too much finger to manipulate the trigger you will have a tendancy to squeeze it at an angle rather that straigh to the rear. When the sear breaks breaks from the hammer the final rearword movement of the finger causes the muzzle to shift left and the shot strikes to the left.
Crap forgot this .. don't get too bummed out about this day i was good today i suck .. that pretty much happens to everyone .. Alot of things can get in your head and effect the way you shoot.. some days I go to the range and I can't miss.
Some trips to the range I couldn't hit water if I fell out of a boat ..
As your skills improve and your muscle memory improves( after learning the right way) the good days far outweigh the bad ..
Some trips to the range I couldn't hit water if I fell out of a boat ..
As your skills improve and your muscle memory improves( after learning the right way) the good days far outweigh the bad ..
