Dangerous game footage
- Thread starter Dogleg
- Start date
A while back true or not some of Marks vids some proffesional hunters from affrica said he does promote a charge and does so by woundning the animal with a smaller weapon, But that was hear say.
This was 6-7 years ago this topic came up on the saffari club forum.
But the Death at my Feet vids are cool no matter what way you look at it.
This was 6-7 years ago this topic came up on the saffari club forum.
But the Death at my Feet vids are cool no matter what way you look at it.
This question may just be the essense of what dangerous game hunting is all about. Can I, or you, or anyone get close enough to almost touch something that can kill the hunter and still deliver the goods?Can he remain cool when things go all to hell, as they occasionally do?
Letting charging animals get that close has a practical side. One theory is to let the animal get so close that you absolutely can't miss, instead of taking a shot farther out and not having time for the second.
Sullivan filming tactics aside, this video really shows what double rifles are for.
- Location
- Somewhere on the Hudson Bay Coast
We had a very intense situation with a herd of buffalo in tall grass, and by tall I mean over 10' high. The tracker being as talented as he is got us into the middle of a herd. You couldn't see anything but a patch of hide a few feet away or the sun glinting off a horn now and then. You could hear them; you could smell them, and when they ran the ground shook. If I had never taken an animal on that hunt, that experience alone was worth every cent I paid. MS is very good at what he does, there is no one you would rather have on a dangerous game hunt, but in that situation had an animal come in on anyone of us, our personal safety was dependent on our own nerves and shooting ability and was not at all enhanced by the presence of one of the best PH's in the business.
As for the bolt gun vs double gun question, I am solidly on the side of the bolt gun. Perhaps I'm just too old to learn new tricks, but when a powerful rifle recoils, you have time to work a bolt by the time the sights come back on target. Neither do I like to be unarmed after two shots.
- Location
- Lakes District BC
your basing your opinion on the exiting bullet on a animal?
gee lets not have that bullet hit any bone and bounce around in there so the video looks perfect so people who dont hunt dont think it was a bad shot
oh and make sure your not uphill or downhill so the angle of the exit is perfect as well
there you have it
Exactly my point....you sir, have actually shot something..and have made a factual contribution to this thread..
your basing your opinion on the exiting bullet on a animal?
gee lets not have that bullet hit any bone and bounce around in there so the video looks perfect so people who dont hunt dont think it was a bad shot
oh and make sure your not uphill or downhill so the angle of the exit is perfect as well
Exactly my point....you sir, have actually shot something..and have made a factual contribution to this thread..
we need to remember on every shot that the client usually takes the first shot (all the poor shots on the lions and first shots that I'm sure everyone saw and on the charging buffalos)
the guide who is seen taking most of the kills is pretty much saving his own ars by shooting along with his client.
I watched a Jim Shockey(sp) hunting show. He went for elephent. The elephent was a local trouble maker. the guide ended up shooting the elephent as it charged. Jim just about wet himslef. That was the end of the show. Jim never even pulled the trigger.
I think having something between a .416 rigby and a 700NE in your arsenal would be a great addition.
the guide who is seen taking most of the kills is pretty much saving his own ars by shooting along with his client.
I watched a Jim Shockey(sp) hunting show. He went for elephent. The elephent was a local trouble maker. the guide ended up shooting the elephent as it charged. Jim just about wet himslef. That was the end of the show. Jim never even pulled the trigger.
I think having something between a .416 rigby and a 700NE in your arsenal would be a great addition.
- Location
- Somewhere on the Hudson Bay Coast
There is another consideration with all of these hunting videos, regardless of who makes them, and that is that the camera seldom, if ever, sees the same view as the shooter. It must of changed some where along the line, but at one time Sullivan was prohibited by the Tanzanian government from showing the client making a shot, so many kill shots were made by the client even though Sullivan's shot may of been right on top.
As to the stories concerning purposely wounding animals to cause a charge, I never saw any evidence of that on my safari, nor were there any minor caliber rifles or down loaded ammunition present.
As to the stories concerning purposely wounding animals to cause a charge, I never saw any evidence of that on my safari, nor were there any minor caliber rifles or down loaded ammunition present.
- Location
- Lakes District BC
so what your saying is all hunters who hire a guide are lousy shots?
again common sence would prevale ......well some of the time to some of the people , off angle camera, yea know were the camera guy is trying to get the shooter and animal in the lense and the same time..... were sorry that not everyone has a bore sighted barrel mounted camera on there rifle to benefit the folks that cant grasp simple matters in life!
Look at your own house cats lets be real.
They are tough as nails, it sound bad but how many of us have yanked one out in pieces of a fan belt or ran one over to see the cat live.
Their will big or small, IS TOO LIVE they do not die easy.
Yes a small 6 lbs barn cat getting malled by a dog or a yote and they live. Just imagin what a 500 lbs cat could do...
I do not think you could make a good shot on a cat and see it die unless you head it! but there goes the trophy
They are tough as nails, it sound bad but how many of us have yanked one out in pieces of a fan belt or ran one over to see the cat live.
Their will big or small, IS TOO LIVE they do not die easy.
Yes a small 6 lbs barn cat getting malled by a dog or a yote and they live. Just imagin what a 500 lbs cat could do...
I do not think you could make a good shot on a cat and see it die unless you head it! but there goes the trophy
Republic of Alberta
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- ,location, location
MY friend has a cat with a broke front leg and his balls are hanging out running around his farm. He was going to shoot it but he can never get a shot on it because it is still so fast.
As a PH you wouldn't have to deal with a charging lion, the last vid illustrates that perfectly. Better to shoot them lying down before they get up because they are fast, dodgy, and when their nervous system gets fired up it takes more than a single shot (if you can connect) to put them down. I'd say most of the lions shot were connected with well, cats just don't react like most other animals. Also goes to prove that a bullet with hydrostatic shock is the way to go with cats. He definately has a pair though!
I have a bunch of Mark Sullivan's DVDs. I have watched all of them multiple times.
1) Mark Sullivan is a great shot and I respect his ability with that rifle!
2) He does have balls of steel.
3) The closer the animal gets, the easier the shot.
4) He shoots a .600NE. If you are going to #### around like he does, it is the ultimate insurance policy.
5) Inspite of the .600NE someday he might trip on a root, or a bulls head might bob just a hair too much and then his ass is grass.
6) 99% of hunters in this world would not attempt what he does; PH's especially despise him for promoting what he does.
7) There are "stories" regarding numerous dead buffalo left behind in an area where Sullivan had clients for one season. There was mention of it on AccurateReloading (quite a while ago). Word or suspicion was that the buff' were wounded and not recovered for one reason or another. Sullivan says in his DVDs and book (which I also have), that his clients use solids only.
There are opinions that this is done intentionally so the buff' can withstand the first shot and then set up the inevitable charge...
8) As far as the lions, those things are 450 lbs of pure muscle, and it's just like BC said, the bullets are pass-throughs and the damn things are tough!!
I've got more opinions.
1) Mark Sullivan is a great shot and I respect his ability with that rifle!
2) He does have balls of steel.
3) The closer the animal gets, the easier the shot.
4) He shoots a .600NE. If you are going to #### around like he does, it is the ultimate insurance policy.
5) Inspite of the .600NE someday he might trip on a root, or a bulls head might bob just a hair too much and then his ass is grass.
6) 99% of hunters in this world would not attempt what he does; PH's especially despise him for promoting what he does.
7) There are "stories" regarding numerous dead buffalo left behind in an area where Sullivan had clients for one season. There was mention of it on AccurateReloading (quite a while ago). Word or suspicion was that the buff' were wounded and not recovered for one reason or another. Sullivan says in his DVDs and book (which I also have), that his clients use solids only.
There are opinions that this is done intentionally so the buff' can withstand the first shot and then set up the inevitable charge...
8) As far as the lions, those things are 450 lbs of pure muscle, and it's just like BC said, the bullets are pass-throughs and the damn things are tough!!
I've got more opinions.
- Location
- Somewhere on the Hudson Bay Coast
When you watch a slow motion charge on a Sullivan video, it is a study in concentration. He is absolutely focused on the job, but he is relaxed, and often you can see the fingers of his support hand open and close around the forend. Nothing is written in stone though, and often immediately after the action he is pretty hyped if things got very close.
The Marcel Thys .600 Nitro had developed a nasty habit of doubling and it had been returned to the maker for repair during our trip. The rifle he carried that year was his Charles Osborne .577. There was nothing Sullivan did during our hunt that would raise alarm bells, except in the minds of the Sullivan haters who seem to get lots of band width over at AR. The guy who owns AR has a particular hate on for him. Mark eats it up, as there is no such thing as bad publicity and it helps to drive the sales of his DVD's.
One of the rules about hunting in Tanzania is that a government game scout must accompany the hunters at all times and record all killed or wounded and not recovered game. Other than the meat that was taken by the trackers for their own use, our buffalo carcasses were used as lion bait. The only meat that I saw wasted was the meat we lost due to a kitchen fire a couple of days into our safari.
With regards to the bullets, I had the option of a Knyoch style solid (probably Woodleigh) or a 570 gr X for the .500 Nitro. I don't like the tapered solids so I opted for the X's, but we did shoot a fair bit of game with factory Federal .375 H&H loaded with Trophy Bonded flat nosed solids with the other client's M-70. Is it possible that animals are lost, sure it is. Would Sullivan loose an animal on purpose I highly doubt it, and a wounded animal still counts against the client's license and the trophy fee must still be paid. and if Ali can't find it no one can.
While most lion hunting seems to be over bait, there are at least two hunts on Mark's videos that show lion hunting on foot. If I can ever afford a lion hunt that's how I would like to do it, although Mark makes a very strong case for the excitement of one feels when a 450 to 470 pound lion comes over and starts pawing at the blind in the hours before dawn. Sullivan has a new book due to come out some time soon. In one chapter he is very critical of some PH's who he alleges knowingly allow their clients to shoot immature lions as "mane-less" lions. That should get things stirred up over at AR when it's released. If I know Sullivan names will be named and fingers will be pointed.
The Marcel Thys .600 Nitro had developed a nasty habit of doubling and it had been returned to the maker for repair during our trip. The rifle he carried that year was his Charles Osborne .577. There was nothing Sullivan did during our hunt that would raise alarm bells, except in the minds of the Sullivan haters who seem to get lots of band width over at AR. The guy who owns AR has a particular hate on for him. Mark eats it up, as there is no such thing as bad publicity and it helps to drive the sales of his DVD's.
One of the rules about hunting in Tanzania is that a government game scout must accompany the hunters at all times and record all killed or wounded and not recovered game. Other than the meat that was taken by the trackers for their own use, our buffalo carcasses were used as lion bait. The only meat that I saw wasted was the meat we lost due to a kitchen fire a couple of days into our safari.
With regards to the bullets, I had the option of a Knyoch style solid (probably Woodleigh) or a 570 gr X for the .500 Nitro. I don't like the tapered solids so I opted for the X's, but we did shoot a fair bit of game with factory Federal .375 H&H loaded with Trophy Bonded flat nosed solids with the other client's M-70. Is it possible that animals are lost, sure it is. Would Sullivan loose an animal on purpose I highly doubt it, and a wounded animal still counts against the client's license and the trophy fee must still be paid. and if Ali can't find it no one can.
While most lion hunting seems to be over bait, there are at least two hunts on Mark's videos that show lion hunting on foot. If I can ever afford a lion hunt that's how I would like to do it, although Mark makes a very strong case for the excitement of one feels when a 450 to 470 pound lion comes over and starts pawing at the blind in the hours before dawn. Sullivan has a new book due to come out some time soon. In one chapter he is very critical of some PH's who he alleges knowingly allow their clients to shoot immature lions as "mane-less" lions. That should get things stirred up over at AR when it's released. If I know Sullivan names will be named and fingers will be pointed.
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As a PH you wouldn't have to deal with a charging lion, the last vid illustrates that perfectly. Better to shoot them lying down before they get up because they are fast, dodgy, and when their nervous system gets fired up it takes more than a single shot (if you can connect) to put them down. I'd say most of the lions shot were connected with well, cats just don't react like most other animals. Also goes to prove that a bullet with hydrostatic shock is the way to go with cats. He definately has a pair though!
Absolutely. Perfectly said. Take a cat when he is lying down.
One Dutch PH told me years ago:
"Trying to shoot a running lion is like trying to stick a pencil into a spinning Coke bottle."
