Dangerous or just cheating?

Ed Smurf

Ed Smurf

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I hunted about 15 years ago with some friends in the central mountains of Pennsylvania. Their favorite time was the antique muzzle loader season which starts day after Christmas. Only flintlocks are allowed. Apparently it was common practice to load 2 round balls at a time, but the regs were changed to forbid this practice.
My questions are:
1) Is it possible to fire this load safely?
2) If you could fire 2 RBs safely, was there any advantage to the hunter?

Just curious.
 
Fellows at our rod and gun club do this on occasion and it is accepted as a safe practice... I do not know any of the details regarding powder charge.. That is to say I have no idea since they are propelling twice the weight of lead if they download a bit or not...
 
camerl2009 said:
yea its safe as long as one ball is unpatched and the one thats patched is sitting on the powder
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And have the loose one rolling up and down the bore as you move the gun so it can act as a bore obstruction? :rolleyes:

Its plenty safe as 2 balls aren't going to weigh much different than many maxi balls would. Just load accordingly

And make sure that both are going to stay put until you touch it off. ;)
 
vagrantviking said:
And have the loose one rolling up and down the bore as you move the gun so it can act as a bore obstruction? :rolleyes:

Its plenty safe as 2 balls aren't going to weigh much different than many maxi balls would. Just load accordingly

And make sure that both are going to stay put until you touch it off. ;)
Click to expand...

This is correct^! Do not leave a loose ball on top, patch both.
I don't think there is much advantage as accuracy of both balls suffers, but different strokes for different folks.
 
camerl2009 said:
yea its safe as long as one ball is unpatched and the one thats patched is sitting on the powder
Click to expand...

So...are you TRYING to get people killed? Or are people blowing up generally just a side effect of listening to your (although confidently and authoritively stated) incredibly stupid advice?

Hint: If you are going to offer advice to people on topics that can get their faces blown off, it's only responsible to actually have a clue as to what you are talking about *before* opening your yap.
 
IIRC in Capt. Dillon's book The Kentucky Rifle, he mentions historical accounts of using 2 balls over a normal powder charge for close range shooting at, presumably, dangerous critters. He also mentions that a common way to proof test a new barrel was a double charge of powder behind 2 patched balls. So I see the 2-ball idea as a trade-off of pushing up pressures and decreasing accuracy for the sake of potentially 2 hits instead of only one. Don't know anyone who has tried the idea on some 50 yd targets but would like to hear about it.
 
Some old lyman article IIRC reported they will leave the bore oval shaped, and behave as such. if you want more mass load a conical.
 
I have done this with both balls patched with no problems they weigh less than a conical
that is to say 2ball and 2 patches stacked I have heard this was done to get a heavier load in the old days when hunting Elk sized game at moderate ranges .
 
I used to load my .58 just like that for bear.
100 grains of powder, a loose patch on the first ball ad a tighter one on the second.
They would group point of aim at 25 yards and about 1/2" apart.
Cat
 
Wrong Way said:
So...are you TRYING to get people killed? Or are people blowing up generally just a side effect of listening to your (although confidently and authoritively stated) incredibly stupid advice?

Hint: If you are going to offer advice to people on topics that can get their faces blown off, it's only responsible to actually have a clue as to what you are talking about *before* opening your yap.
Click to expand...

ive used a lose ball in my .50 with no problems of the ball moving

ever hear of taploading in the heat of battel with the "frogs" coming at you one could get more shots off by biting the ball off putting powder in the pan then dumping the rest down the barrel spiting the ball down the bore and taping the butt on the ground lightly this worked as the ball was under size for the old brown bess being .69 cal with a bore of .75

if you keep the muzzle pointed up the ball will not rool down the bore :p

there no real point to 2 balls in one barrel for hunting for deer you want a .50 or bigger with round ball and for moose and elk id say atleast a .58 its fun at the range but not something for hunting

conicals cant be used in all guns but round balls are good enough for anything on this earth as long as you match the cal and ball weight to the game for me anything bigger then a moose id want a 12 bore atleast and for anything in the big 5 id want a 4-2 bore

with most modern guns your ball ist only .020" under groove dia the ball is not going to roll out that easy
 
Firing a muzzleloader with a gap between the powder and the projectile is dangerpous. Even a modern steel barrel can be damaged.
Loading a naked ball first, followed by a patched ball would prevent this. A loose ball on top of the patched ball is a disaster waiting to happen.
Loading a normally patched ball, followed by another normally patched ball is also trouble. The air compressed between the balls can push the second ball out, creating a gap.
I suppose two patched balls could be rammed down together, so that the projectiles would be seated properly on the powder.
Seating a loose ball by pounding the butt on the ground is a desperation measure. Soldiers on guard duty would also load their muskets with a running ball so the musket could be easily unloaded at the end of the tour of duty. The drill for loading a flintlock musket was to prime the lock before charging the barrel.
Just because it was done doesn't make the practice safe.
 
Many years ago I double balled for several shots, to see what effect it would have. The balls printed fairly close together (at 25 yards) as I recall, but also struck several inches low. Both balls were patched and what is extremely important is that both balls are one on top of each other with no air gap. When you ram the ball down you have to hold it down until the air stops squirting past the patch. Also extremely wise to have an extra mark on your ramrod to ensure that you are all the way down with two balls

Bottom line is that while it was done in the good old days in the hopes of getting a more lethal shot, I think the trade off in accuracy and trajectory is too negative for the tiny increase of improved effect on game that you get or imagine that you will get

cheers mooncoon
 
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If I remember correctly, the only time I've loaded two balls is when I was proofing a new barrel. Can't really see much point in doing it for normal use.
 
I have done it when shooting what is called a "stake shoot". A 1 x 6 cedar plank has to be shot in half so the more lead hitting it the better. Past 25 yards it is not accurate and I see no point to it.

Cheers, Steve.
 
other then proofing and a little fun at the range only other ighing ive use more then one round ball in is a 12ga shell loaded with 2 hard cast .600 round balls
 
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