Debate: Gun Vs Bear Spray

[westcoaster]

I read an article on bear spray vs guns on bear encounters. The study claims defense with a gun is more likely to end in fatality than bear spray. They base this information on reported events. After reading this article, a couple of questions came to mind questioning the legitimacy of the study.

1 - How many unreported encounters are their with the use of a firearm? I'm sure their is many who shoot and get the hell out of dodge out of fear they might get in trouble for killing a bear.

2 - The encounters involving a firearm, did they count those that had any firearm on them? Like people who had a .22 for hunting small game.

So what do you guys think? I don't buy what the study is selling. I'll be carrying my .375H&H with my .300gr FMJ for bears way before carrying any bear spray.

h ttp://www.backcountrychronicles.com/bear-spray-pepper-spray-vs-gun/

h ttp://www.themeateater.com/2016/the-cold-hard-facts-of-bear-deterrents-bear-spray-vs-firearms/

Greetings MMM,

I'm a little surprised as this is usually a much debated mid-winter thread. You seem sincere so FWIW...

Just in the circle of people I know and hunt with there are a number of SSS. Shoot, Shovel, Shutup. Right or wrong, a lot of folks don't think they would get a fair shake from the CO's.

I think both are effective if used properly. Although I read an account (one of Gary Shelton's books IIRC) of a chap that exhausted his bear spray and the bear kept coming back. Even taking that into account I think for someone that doesn't practice a lot with their primary carry firearm would be better off with bear spray. The logic is as follows, less skill required with spray = higher percentage of getting it right.

For me, I will use a firearm whenever possible. I do practice a lot, I can call my shots, I have faced bears stalking and charging me. It's about what you are good with - realistically.


On another note, as others have mentioned park the FMJ's and use a good premium expanding bullet. I have had good success on Grizzly and black bear with Swift AFrames.

 

[TheTooner]

Ya use the spray on your food or salad .....
What about all the untold stories by police ...local ..RCMP or where ever you live ...don’t believe everything you read and are told
Guns are used for protection.....shotgun with buck or slugs
Spray is used to spice up your food
Or carry a really big flipping knife ...8..9” blade hey if the bear jumps on you ya you will get mauled ...but you will live....but an 8”..9”...blade thrusted in to a bear .....it’s going to get off you and run and die

I carry a big knife, but I don't count on killing a bear with it. I just hope to be annoying enough that it has to finish killing me before it starts eating.

 

[Tac Man]

Bear spray everyday for best immediate and emergency defence against a bruin. The spray is much easier to deploy and basically you are fogging the area the bear is coming from. Not many folks, unless they are well experienced in quick deployment of firearms under high stress, will make effective shots on a charging bear! That said, Shotgun or rifle if you have time and a good amount of distance.

My 2 cents.

 

[Ironheart]

Both

 

[medvedqc]

for those that support the bear spray in can look up what the game wardens and similars are using ...

guess what: 12 ga, 7mm rem mag,30-06, 300 winchester magnum, 375hh, 9mm and 357 mag so much for bear spray ...

always amaze me that in Kluane National park i cannot have a firearm with me and the wardens can ... i ve seen them training and i can guarantee that you do not want them to protect you ...

 

[stampede]

Bears can be quite stealthy. Perhaps they observe you without you realising, and seeing that you carry bear spray, they leave you alone.

Or they see your gun and say, "He has only got a 44 magnum loaded with soft points , I think I'll go eat him.

 

[buckchaser]

I spent 9 days backpacking the Donjek route in Kluane in 2015. I have never seen so much bear sign in my
life and we had two grizzly encounters where bear bangers sent them running. Our group of six all had spray and two had bear bangers. I felt pretty comfortable with those options in a group of six - but if I had been doing the trip by myself spray and a gun would be far more confidence inspiring.

QUOTE=medvedqc;15122128]for those that support the bear spray in can look up what the game wardens and similars are using ...

guess what: 12 ga, 7mm rem mag,30-06, 300 winchester magnum, 375hh, 9mm and 357 mag so much for bear spray ...

always amaze me that in Kluane National park i cannot have a firearm with me and the wardens can ... i ve seen them training and i can guarantee that you do not want them to protect you ...[/QUOTE]

 

[powder burner]

I still think that if some big bad dudes can fight off pepper spray and still fight with cops / correction officerswhoever, then same goes for the bears. Effective on most, but not all. Not Jackie Chan in a can for everyone sprayed by it. Some people actually immune to it and has no effect.

If they are determined enough by prey drive / defending cubs or whatever, they will fight through it. I’d think spray, your choice of rifle (not any rimfire stuff) and having a hunting knife on your belt that was easily accessible ( doubt when sympathetic nervous system kicks in you’d be able to use any of them really effectively without practise) then you’d have all options covered. The simplest to use seems like the spray to me. Although you gotta be close to use it. And hope wind doesn’t blow back to you.

Also here’s a tip. Johnson’s Baby oil and water should be packed as well. If spray gets in your eyes, this stuff will let you see. More likely the can goes off when no need for it / no bears around and something sets can off. You being a dumbass or someone is effing around with it.

I’d be more nervous about cougars than bears.

 

[TheTooner]

I spent 9 days backpacking the Donjek route in Kluane in 2015. I have never seen so much bear sign in my
life and we had two grizzly encounters where bear bangers sent them running. Our group of six all had spray and two had bear bangers. I felt pretty comfortable with those options in a group of six - but if I had been doing the trip by myself spray and a gun would be far more confidence inspiring.

Of course, the more other people in your group that the bear could eat instead of you, the better. If you are alone, you need to take every precaution.

 

[Camp Cook]

I'll take the firearm every time even if it is just a single shot...

 

[philhut]

All depends if your ok with the bear walking away from your encounter..... if I am in a nature park I am ok with allowing the bear to walk away. If I'm at the camp where I hunt and bring my 6yr old daughter for outdoors exp that bear is not walking away if I can help it.

To MNR I felt threatened. Period

 

[The Kurgan]

my 870 with the six round mag filled with Challenger slugs. One warning shot and five for business if necessary. I once came face to face with a huge female polar bear in Churchill, MB with a shiitty a$s Enfield 303 slung over my shoulder. It was by grace of God that the bear was too hot to engage me that day. Nobody can convince me that bear spray would have worked if that bear became hostile.

 

[Hand Skills]

My experience with bears is limited to Alberta and BC. When dealing with Grizzlies and Black Bears I'm pretty confident in anything that goes bang - preferably 308win or bigger. I've never shot a bear, nor do I wish to. I have found a warning shot to be successful on a couple of occasions. If it's illegal or impractical to carry a firearm, I stick to bells bangers and behaviour.

Bears are not dumb. Announcing ones presence is usually enough - they are gone before you see 'em. Some are curious, usually adolescent... bangers have a much greater effective range than does spray, and it's all about asserting confidence (not the same as dominance) and protecting ones personal space.

To me, the worst case scenarios are;

-surprising a bear (don't do this without a gun)
-having a bear crawl into my tent (my uncle has a good story about this. Have a plan - hint: pepper spray is not helpful in a tent)

I'm not as seasoned as some of the folks here, but I have had numerous bear encounters from which both myself and the bear(s) walked away. I realize there is always the potential for conflict, and it's wise to prepare for that eventuality. However, a few ounces of prevention can go a long way. Thus far my experience supports that. I may had a different perspective if I grew up with Browns and Polar bears in my back yard...

 

[Camp Cook]

You missed commenting on the bears that are predatory that are looking at you as their next meal.

I pack a gun...

 

[TheTooner]

Or they see your gun and say, "He has only got a 44 magnum loaded with soft points , I think I'll go eat him.

Although bears are quite stealthy, as I said, I suspect that most of the times that no one sees a bear it's because there isn't one there.

 

[merlin1]

I read an article on bear spray vs guns on bear encounters. The study claims defense with a gun is more likely to end in fatality than bear spray. They base this information on reported events. After reading this article, a couple of questions came to mind questioning the legitimacy of the study.

1 - How many unreported encounters are their with the use of a firearm? I'm sure their is many who shoot and get the hell out of dodge out of fear they might get in trouble for killing a bear.

2 - The encounters involving a firearm, did they count those that had any firearm on them? Like people who had a .22 for hunting small game.

So what do you guys think? I don't buy what the study is selling. I'll be carrying my .375H&H with my .300gr FMJ for bears way before carrying any bear spray.

h ttp://www.backcountrychronicles.com/bear-spray-pepper-spray-vs-gun/

h ttp://www.themeateater.com/2016/the-cold-hard-facts-of-bear-deterrents-bear-spray-vs-firearms/

since i have been around firearms my whole life i would take a gun 1000%----to put your life in the hands of a aerosol spray to me is asinine..experts --ya what ever--many text book experts out there who would crap their pants when faced in a life and death scenario--like asking what you would rather have facing and armed robber--a pointy stick or something that spouts lead at 1000 + fps--hmmmm???

 

[johnny rotten]

Slugs from my 590 won't be blown left or right by the wind when I need to use it, not so for bear spray
I've also got a weapon light mounted on my shotty for target ID in case it's dark (I suspect some people don't have a light on their defensive firearm and should have one)
I'd much rather carry a handgun, as it leaves my hands free for kit use, however our illustrious government and horsemen turned carrying a handgun in the bush into a can of worms for us average guys
The government needs to change firearms laws regarding wilderness carry for defence

 

[Dogleg]

I think you all should all just take one for the other team and lie down and play dead.


Signed,
The Bears

 

[shoota]

You know who likes bear spray? Bear lovers, Parks and COs, employers who don't want you to have guns at work, people haters, those that make it and the stupid bears. Gimmie the gun.

hahaha I liked that statement.

If you have a mature bear wanting to do what it wants you aren't stopping it unless by lethal force, so I would choose a gun all day. Don't think a blackie is harmless look what happened in 2014 to the poor girl at the suncor site north of Fort Mac. The number of black bear attacks on humans is higher than those of brown bears, though this is largely because blacks outnumber browns rather than them being more aggressive, still something to think about.

https://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/suncor-worker-killed-in-bear-attack-was-dragged-from-group-1.1812517

 

[madashell]

I had to kill a charging bear in close range.

F*k you to anyone who thinks bear spray means a damn thing in that situation. Screw the MNR or any liberal idiot who has those stupid ideas. I'm sick to death of the idiocy on this matter.

It's absolutely absurd to believe spray is the way to go in that situation.

my 870 with the six round mag filled with Challenger slugs. One warning shot and five for business if necessary. I once came face to face with a huge female polar bear in Churchill, MB with a shiitty a$s Enfield 303 slung over my shoulder. It was by grace of God that the bear was too hot to engage me that day. Nobody can convince me that bear spray would have worked if that bear became hostile.