**Dec.7 elk added** - Field report on 7mm RM + 168gr LRAB + Mule Deer

1899 said:
Straight from Nosler:


The bullet on this elk did not hold together well at all at even ~2500 fps.

I like to shoot at longer distances for fun and to be competent in case I need to make a longer shot. I have NEVER used Berger bullets because I do not want Berger type on game performance. Clearly Nosler marketed the LRAB differently, as can be seen from the above quote. I do not believe the bullet performs as they claim. I didn't measure the depth of penetration, but I guess that it was no more than about 10". That is without hitting a major bone of any sort.
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Fair enough....it is easy to get caught up in the marketing hype. I'm a sucker for all things new as well.
 
Nosler says its bonded for maximum weight retention, has no maximum impact speed restriction and is good for moose and african game. Why would one not use it when these are the claims they make?
 
kman300 said:
Nosler says its bonded for maximum weight retention, has no maximum impact speed restriction and is good for moose and african game. Why would one not use it when these are the claims they make?
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I guess anyone that's used Accubonds in the past might question those statements....but then they'd likely question the "energy transfer" statement as well. I didn't read where it said maximum weight retention....just sufficient. Either way I suspect they do hold potential to be a good long-range bullet and obviously they do retain sufficient weight to be lethal/reliable at closer ranges. Perhaps it's all in how you dissect their marketing hype.
 
Thanks for taking the time to post this - I was considering loading up some LRABs ( 7RM as well ) but was concerned about this very issue despite Noslers "propaganda". You saved me some time and money, if nothing else.
 
The important thing to remember is the LRAB is a specialty bullet. It's not going to be perfect at everything especially at the far end of the spectrum from what it was designed for. This bullet is still a much better option than the 168 Berger. I don't expect many 160 class bullets to make it to the far side on large game to be totally honest. 10 inches of penetration sounds about right to me out of a soft bullet.
 
Silverado said:
I've got far, far less experience shooting game than many on here and other forums, but I believe I see a distinct trend in the threads and user reports I've seen.

There seems to be a desire among some hunters to chase the bleeding-edge long-range ballistics enjoyed by target shooters. That's understandable; after all, who doesn't want the best performance available?

I think the question becomes one of exactly what type of performance are you after? Is it about hunting, or shooting?

I've seen enough anecdotal evidence to convince me that the currently available crop of "long-range hunting bullets" are so limited in their versatility, that they're not at all appealing as a hunting bullet for me. I can't imagine a scenario where I would be faced with shooting opportunities ONLY out at the ranges where these types of bullets seem to perform acceptably.

When the mathematics of ballistics are so well known that they're available on your smartphone, and optics available are generally so well-made as to ensure confidence in adjustment and resolution for longer-range shots, what is the point of using a bullet which has such a narrow margin of ballistic advantage over its more conventional brethren, at the expense of the wide margin of versatility offered by the same competition?

It seems largely self-defeating to me, and I'll stick with GameKings, Partitions and Triple-Shocks for my bullets.
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I think you are missing the point. Nosler claims they hold together well from 1300fps - 3200fps, so I thought these bullets would perform acceptably at closer and farther ranges. I guess what you consider acceptable is subjective, as many consider Berger bullets to have acceptable performance at normal ranges whereas I do not feel that way.

Then "is it about hunting or shooting"? The answer is both. I like to go out to the cutblock in the off season and shoot under various conditions and at various ranges. I even like to shoot at ranges that are further than I'd shoot at game. I'd like one bullet and load to do all of that. I don't have a smart phone...or any cell phone for that matter, and I don't have a team of guys doing calculations for me while I'm in the field. I do enjoy all aspects of hunting and shooting, and checking out these bullets was a worthwhile endeavor for me. You note that you have seen lots of anecdotal evidence about long range bullets. Have you seen much on these LRAB's? I haven't. I read what Nosler said and figured I'd give them a try. I then noted the results and posted those results as best I could so that others could see how they perform. Sure, it's only 4 big game animals, but I think it is a nice sample and is representative of what you might see in the field - notwithstanding the marketing.
 
Even the 175g partition is not the greatest penetrator. The partition is way far back on those (probably the 160 as well). They are definatly not equal to the 180g and heavier 30 cal class of partitions for penetration when there is some hard digging to do at the start of the wound channel to much of the bullet blows away for deep penetration. I have a recovered 175 some where out of a moose I think it just barely made it in to the far shoulder.
 
Im a newbie but isnt the point to prevent as much bloodshot meat as possible? Either by shot placement, type of ammo etc.... Why use a bullet that will destroy meat. I moose hunt with my brother and he hates it when there is a lot of bloodshot meat.
 
I've stopped believing magazine advertising propaganda and gear "tests" years ago. I would prefer to use a solid over these new "long range VLD" hunting bullets. So far, I've never lost or seen anyone lose an animal due to "over-penetration". I can't say the same for those animals which receive superficial wounds from explosive bullets.

Using the Berger VLD will result in an animal that goes down fast so you can enjoy the results of your hunt without having to track the wounded animal after the shot. Laugh2
 
bearkilr said:
I've stopped believing magazine advertising propaganda and gear "tests" years ago. I would prefer to use a solid over these new "long range VLD" hunting bullets. So far, I've never lost or seen anyone lose an animal due to "over-penetration". I can't say the same for those animals which receive superficial wounds from explosive bullets.

Using the Berger VLD will result in an animal that goes down fast so you can enjoy the results of your hunt without having to track the wounded animal after the shot. Laugh2
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I have used berger VLD's the last 3 seasons, and not one deer lost. Last one i shot on the 2nd day of deer seaon was at 260 yards and he died where he stood. i use a 6.5X47.
 
1899 said:
http://www.nosler.com/accubond-long-range/
Look at the previous quote, lifted directly from their web site and also watch the video from the link. Specifically the animation from about 0:38 to 0:47

In fact, under "Optimum Performance Velocity" they say Minimum: 1300 fps ( 396 mps) and Maximum: Unlimited
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All I saw them say is that it would retain sufficient weight to be lethal unless I'm missing something....apparently they were right in the instances you posted. Perhaps you and few others are reading more into the claims by Nosler than is really there?
 
sheephunter said:
All I saw them say is that it would retain sufficient weight to be lethal unless I'm missing something....apparently they were right in the instances you posted. Perhaps you and few others are reading more into the claims by Nosler than is really there?
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Nosler says:

Designed with an optimum performance window ranging from 3,200fps to 1,300fps,
 
To the shooter of the 7mm rm I'm shooting 162 sst at 65 grains h4831 sc
in a 24 inch tikka m65 and have been shooting elk for 25 years with that same rifle
at yardages of 300 - 600 this rifle has taken 50 + animals
I believe my rifle is going to fast for a clean kill .
It coterizes the wound as it's going through . My 7mm
has made many small exit holes to many to count and animals do walk 40 to 150 yards on a good shot .
i have changed my plan of attack . I'm shooting a custom 6.5 x55 and it makes big mean exit wounds yet does not do a lot of tissue damage . I think it's the speed and diameter .
It dropped 4 animals this year a little bull elk included all hardball exit wounds
all dropped right in there tracks
I also changed my shot placement to front shoulder
let that bone turn in to shrapnel take out the heart and Lung break the front shoulder
drop on the spot dead . No adrenalin in the meet .
All the best and good hunting
 
sheephunter said:
If optimum means animals die I don't see the issue. Obviously they do.
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No, optimum does not mean that. Looking at the entire description "optimum" refers to the velocity range in which "the unique tapered jacket geometry and proprietary bonding process of the AccuBond®-LR allow it to expand rapidly for effective energy transfer and significant tissue damage while retaining sufficient weight to ensure deep penetration into the vitals".

On the elk there was no weight retention to speak of and the bullet sure didn't have deep penetration. And that was well below the maximum "optimum" velocity. Perhaps you can explain what Nosler means when they claim the above noted bonding process and "optimum" peformance eliminates "the problem of being “too close” often encountered with other high-B.C. bullets".

With respect, it really works against your credibility when you cherry pick words and don't consider the whole context of the claims. Your words are spoken like a true politician, or someone who knows which side his bread is buttered on.
 
I have used Amax 178gr for the last couple seasons, find them to be extremely lethal, I wouldn't say they are overly devastating but, they are leaving with 3-4x bigger holes and I have yet to have one go further then his nose dropping straight to the ground and this has been three different shots at varying distances. one at 485 y about three inches under the spine over the vitals, one at 78 yards in the boiler room and another at 245 yards on a slight angle to the boiler (not to mention all the unlucky coyotes and magpies and gophers that have looked at me wrong......) and I have to say that I am very impressed with the damage and terminal effect these "match inspired" bullets have had. I say if it works and its accurate, use it.
 
1899 said:
With respect, it really works against your credibility when you cherry pick words and don't consider the whole context of the claims. Your words are spoken like a true politician, or someone who knows which side his bread is buttered on.
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Not much respect there actually but hey, I didn't write the description, Nosler did. You can read what you want into it but I'm not the slightest bit shocked at what you experienced and honestly, despite their marketing spin, I see no false claims. I don't think you needed to be a fortune teller to predict how this bullet would perform if you had any previous experience with Accubonds. As I said, I suspect it will be a great long-range choice for some. Nosler puts no butter on my bread so I know not of what you speak. As this thread appears to be degrading from a discussion about bullets to personal insults, I'll gracefully bow out now!
 
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