Decision of the day 45-70 or 375 H&H?

Let me here your thoughts. The use would be for bush and up to perhaps a distance of 200 yards. Moose and Elk hunting at close range. I want a one shot one kill so if you have any other suggestions let me know.

First of all the OP should specify action type he likes ie:bolt or lever. The "one shot,one kill" part is up to him. Many decades ago I killed my first whitetail where I hunted in the heavy bush of west Quebec with a 1895 Marlin w/receiver sight and 300 gr. handload. Poof...like the rug was pulled out from under her!. In the following years I switched to a scoped .30-06 when I started hunting moose around clear-cuts and deer in farm ares where didtances were likely longer than I felt comfortable with the Marlin. I think the OP should pick up a good quality 1895 Marlin and a current production model 70 .375 and he will be covered. What true gunnut could settle for just one gun anyway?
Cheers
 
The obvious answer here is the .375 (H&H, of course! :)), but obvious isn't always correct. As stated above, the .375 is far more capable and easy-to-use at longer ranges, while the .45-70 is a niche cartridge. But that's the thing: the OP has specifically stated that he is one of those niches, i.e. he won't be shooting beyond 200 yards, and probably most of his shooting will be much closer. Taken in that light, the .45-70 doesn't give up much to the competition, and if the shooter happens to enjoy lever actions it then becomes the "obvious" answer...as long as he is sure that he won't ever venture out of the niche, which of course is the tough part.

I love both cartridges, and if I am in one of those situations where "it absolutely, positively has to be dead right now!" then I would go with the .375, because I know it will do anything I want done. BUT...if I "know" I will be hunting strictly in thick brush, and if I "know" that 200 yards is the absolute outside edge of the envelope, then a light, handy, accurate lever-action in .45-70 would get the nod over any bolt gun. It's like choosing the vehicle for a particular driving assignment. If I have a distance to drive, and might be bringing something large and heavy home from the store, or might come across an interesting yard-sale find, or just don't know what might come up in terms of weather or traffic or whatever, then I'll take the truck. But if I "know" that all I am doing is going for a relaxing peaceful Sunday ride, give me a motorcycle every time...but you can bet that I'll be aware of the limitations.
 
Hell of a niche to last what 140 years. I have no problem shooting at a moose elk or bear at 200 yards with my 45/70. There's a thing called marksmanship and bush craft. Get as close as you can and make the first shot count. I hunt thick bush and for me it doesn't get any better then a 45/70. Most of my shots come at 30-50 yards in the thick but i've practiced enough to hit a 6" target at 200 yards. That's good enough for me. The 375 hh maybe a better choice for more open or dangerous game hunting but the poster is hunting in close and in thick cover. I agree with Doug that the HH gives up little in close but they also usually come in longer heavier platforms
A 350 gr premium bullet at 1900 fps will still break heavy bones at 200 yards and make it to the vitals
 
I'm usually the "pusher" in our moose hunting gang.
The "pusher" goes thru the dirty stuff with the wind driving animals to the guys in the tree stands and ground blinds.
I use a stainless Guide Gun with Williams aperture iron sights and the Buffalo Bore 430 grain hard cast lead FP ammo as my farthest shot in the alder and switch jungle would be 50 yards.
I'm not dragging a 9 pound 375 H+H with a 24" snout thru the thick brush.
Looks like for your application the lever would be pretty much ideal, but a 375 can be had at a lot less than 9lbs too.

A 20" 375 built on a 700 action in a LW stock would be comparable to a Guide Gun.
 
Super short 6lbs 21" barreled T/C Contender carbine in 375JDJ beats both the 338 Fed & 358 Win for thump.

375JDJ = rimmed 444 Marlin brass necked down to 375 cal with a larger case capacity than the 308 case.

Or my 1" longer 22" barreled T/C Contender carbine in 45-70 does the exact same job out to 200 yards I just have to think a second more about the trajectory.
 
Looks like for your application the lever would be pretty much ideal, but a 375 can be had at a lot less than 9lbs too.

A 20" 375 built on a 700 action in a LW stock would be comparable to a Guide Gun.

The Winchester Alaskans run 8 pounds in .338 so less than 8 pounds in .375 H&H. Recoil is a bit snappier for the trade off. Bob the barrel to 22" if you like. Seems like magnum rifles often have longer barrels for a reason - many have 26" barrels. Perhaps the trade off for greater power is necessarily greater size and weight.
 
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And Douglas doesn't load his .45/70s gently, my knuckles still smart. If you were to hunt big game in all corners of the world with a single rifle, one chambered for a big case .375 will be appropriate where ever big game is hunted. While interest in it seems to have waned, anything said about a .375 also applies to the .416. The .416s do everything the .375s do, but they ensure you'll spend more money, and absorb more recoil doing them. I like .458s too, but the only way to make a .458 as versatile as a .375 is to mate it to a big Rigby or Weatherby case, and I don't see folks lining up to shoot a .460 Weatherby prone, although now and again you see one for sale with a box of 19 unfired cartridges, so maybe it was attempted.

Now the .45/70 has its place. If you hunt in tough terrain, where the advantages of carrying a slim lever action rifle can be appreciated, and where you might need the short range, knock em flat performance of a heavy for caliber hard cast WFN, to put meat in the freezer or get you out of a fix, then an '86 Winchester or a '95 Marlin is for you. But those circumstances do not fit the definition of typical big game hunting. So in the context of the modern hunting experience, the .45/70 is a niche cartridge.

Its prudent to sight rifles with a muzzle velocity of 2200-2300 fps for 150 yards, rifles with a muzzle velocity of 2500-2700 for 200 yards, and rifles with a muzzle velocity of 3000 fps can be zeroed at 300 yards. By comparison, the zero range of the .45/70 is similar as that of a 12 ga slug. There are circumstances where a 12 ga slug is a good choice, but neither is a 12 ga slug a particularly versatile big game cartridge. Lets assume you intend to knock down a pronghorn at a quarter mile. Now maybe the fellow with the .257 Weatherby will be kind enough to point out that a .375 isn't the best tool for the job, but it can spit out a 230 gr bullet at over 3000 fps, so hitting the speed goat is only a marksmanship problem, but the problem is unsolvable with a 12 ga, and nearly so with a .45/70. Today's wilderness is a different place. In many areas, power lines, oil and gas exploration, mining activities, and tree harvesting have opened land and increased the distances at which game can be spotted, and shot from. To say nothing of the natural openings of large marshes, lakes, rock outcrops, and high elevations which provide a commanding view over the country. As a result, cartridges that at their best are short range performers, are less prudent than those which provide the hunter with flat trajectories and ample killing power a quarter mile down range.

The .375 has been lucky for me; the best practical shooting that I've done has been with a .375. It could be that experience influences my opinion, but since I've been able to do things with a .375 that I couldn't do as easily, or at all, with other cartridges, it supports my argument, rather than negates it. To the man noted by bigborefan who does all of his game shooting with a .45/70 Sharps, my hat is off to you. Your level of dedication to the sport, and to the degree of difficulty it entails, few others would consider. That is commendable, I appreciate the commitment; it goes to show that there is more than one correct answer to the question. The next question then is how much time, energy, and money are you willing to invest? Becoming a deadly long range shot with a .45/70 is not an inexpensive prospect, and is not for the new breed who demand instant gratification.

The most well written, factual and eloquently composed post in this thread. To the point and sums it up very well.
 
The most well written, factual and eloquently composed post in this thread. To the point and sums it up very well.

Speaking as one who owns several of both 45-70s and 375s I couldn't agree more with you.
Both Boomer and Douglas have posted some very common sense opinions arrived at from their own hard earned experiences.
Thanks fellas !
 
Thanks for all the info it was great to hear from all sides and yes the lever action I do like but I am swaying to purchase a both now. It was very interesting to hear from all the CGNers I appreciate it. Cheers
 
Sorry, I didn't read all 8 pages on this thread....

I own and shoot both 45-70 and .375 Mag (mine happens to be a RUM; whatever...).

If the OP is asking for close range bush gun for elk and moose with maybe a shot out to 200 yards at most, I DO NOT think it's a no brainer in favor of the .375 mag. He's not lookng for a full-blown "all arounder" rifle.

A properly loaded 45-70 very easily kills out past 200 yards and the drop is not that crazy. 45-70 ammo is about half of .375 mag, and 45-70's love cast bullets, which probably drops the price of reloads in half again.

Seems to me the OP should just decide which rifle he likes best, the one he is looking at in 45-70, or the one he is looking at in 375 mag, and just go with the one he like best.
 
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