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blacktemplar07

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Well, I've made the decision to join the shooting community full force. My goal, to obtain a precision rifle, practice and compete in Ontario Rifle Association competitions, and make a new hobby out of all of this.

Bit about me, i'm a young guy, I work as a Engineer, extremely quick learner, being an engineer, external and internal ballistics is interesting, and a prominent topic for my scholarly years of my life. Was a city guy for most of my life, never exposed to firearms for the bulk of my life until last year. Went out a handful of times shooting last year, and had a great time every time, picked up my pal last year, and I'm just getting around to purchasing my first firearm now. I'm also a big fan of Accuracy International... Sorry wallet...

Hence the Title...

I'm trying to decide what to buy and I've narrowed it down to three similar, different price points for a decision. Im having a hard time deciding, and perhaps someone will share some piece of insight..

Choice 1:
SPS Tactical .308 20" 1 in 12 in AX 2.0 Chassis
Tactical Bolt Handle
Badger FTE Brake
Atlas Bipod
Accuracy International 34mm one-piece rings
Bushnell HDMR G2DMR
~$5200 after taxes
~2wk Delivery

Choice 2:
Pierce Custom Action .308 in AICS 2.0 Chassis
20" 1 in 10 Broughton barrel
Tactical Bolt Handle
Badger FTE Brake
Atlas Bipod
AI 34mm Rings
Bushnell HDMR G2DMR
~$5800 after taxes
~1month delivery

Choice 3:
AI AE MKIII 20" 1 in 12 Folder .308
AI Brake
Atlas Bipod
AI 34mm Rings
Bushnell HDMR G2DMR
~$6900 after taxes
~3-6 Month delivery

So I keep bouncing in between these options consistently. So I'm up for critique so let me know what you think.

Cheers
 
derrick1978 said:
Prices seem high on 1 and 2. Considering that, definitely option 3.
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I definitely keep thinking to myself, buy once cry one, after all, may as well get the real meal deal if thats what I like so much. I'm having a hard time with the delivery date though... knowing there is a distinct possibility I could miss a summer of shooting waiting...
 
Not sure you are a quick learner at all, this is a little mmmmmmmmmm silly for a first purchase, I would recommend contacting some of the folks at the range or ranges that you think you would like to shoot IN THE DISCIPLINES you wish to pursue, way too much money for a first rifle, i can htink of many rifles for 3500 or so that will get you all you can handle, what did your friends say that let you shoot thier rifles

Jefferson
 
Jefferson said:
I would recommend contacting some of the folks at the range or ranges that you think you would like to shoot IN THE DISCIPLINES you wish to pursue, way too much money for a first rifle
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This. You'll find out that each discipline has it's own "best practices" and rules as far as component choice, etc. and it may not suit the type of shooting you end up liking. "Buy once, cry once" is a philosophy that I also subscribe to, but you'd be doing yourself a disservice by not taking the time to really research what you need to excel in whatever forms of shooting you choose.
 
If you are only interested in shooting Precision Matches you can use a muzzle break. For TR/F Class matches the muzzle brake has to come off.

Like Jefferson says get out to a few practice dates and or matches and see what the guys are shooting.

You can build a custom rifle and still come out cheaper.
 
Each rifle has its appeal but all are what I'd call tactical type rifles. I am also a fan of AE stocks ( though not the newer AX ) so I understand you want that. With respect to option 1 you will likely wish to rebarrel and that will be an additional part and smithing cost so you should think on that issue. As far as being competitive, in a tac rifle match all could be OK ( option 2 and 3 for sure ) but if you are looking at F/TR you will be a bit disappointed even if you make weight. Notwithstanding which of 1 2 or 3 you pick I wouldn't choose the optics you have chosen and recommend more thinking about that.
 
Tomochan said:
Each rifle has its appeal but all are what I'd call tactical type rifles. I am also a fan of AE stocks ( though not the newer AX ) so I understand you want that. With respect to option 1 you will likely wish to rebarrel and that will be an additional part and smithing cost so you should think on that issue. As far as being competitive, in a tac rifle match all could be OK ( option 2 and 3 for sure ) but if you are looking at F/TR you will be a bit disappointed even if you make weight. Notwithstanding which of 1 2 or 3 you pick I wouldn't choose the optics you have chosen and recommend more thinking about that.
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X2 you need to figure out what it is that you want to do and then narrow it down from there. These choices seem like you looked up some stuff on the net that looked cool. Totally agree on the optics too. Cheaper rifle perhaps but better optics.
 
Jefferson said:
Not sure you are a quick learner at all, this is a little mmmmmmmmmm silly for a first purchase, I would recommend contacting some of the folks at the range or ranges that you think you would like to shoot IN THE DISCIPLINES you wish to pursue, way too much money for a first rifle, i can htink of many rifles for 3500 or so that will get you all you can handle, what did your friends say that let you shoot thier rifles

Jefferson
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###222
 
OK, so you're young, rich, hopefully single, wanting to take the plunge into LR shooting and completely prepared to trade off money versus time-to-delivery. I can easily relate and sympathize (though I have to look back a few years to see myself in the same place).

BTW, fair warning, you're not going to 'cry once'. Even if you buy really good expensive gear that you are happy with and keep for life, you're going to buy more gear in the future and (financially) cry many more times. Not that there's necessarily anything wrong with that...

All three of your picks indicate to me that you're interested in a high-ish end, off-the-shelf short to mid range sniper rifle or whatever p.c. term you might prefer. They'll do a great job shooting from 20m to 600m, and if you have them you might as well also shoot them at matches out to 1000 yards too however there are a few changes you might make if you wanted to position yourself a bit better for the 1000 yard end of things.

Unless you have good reason to do otherwise, I'd suggest you build your rifle with an eye to it being legal and competitive in both "Precision Rifle" matches as well as F/TR matches.

After you've spent the summer doing as much shooting as you can with the ORA, I would suggest you plan on shooting one or more national championship match in Ottawa in late August or early September. A wonderful thing about fullbore rifle shooting is that you do not need to 'qualify' to shoot national matches - if you are interested and motivated, you just go, and you do it. There's the 3-day F-Class National Championship held 15-17 August and there is the National Service Conditions matches 29 Aug - 7 Sept, part of which is a two or three day sniper rifle component.

I would recommend against your "Choice 1" as currently written. It seems to be missing a good barrel and therefore by implication is using a Remington factory barrel. For the kind of money you are looking at spending, you should absolutely demand and expect a proper match barrel. There are many good makers (Krieger, Broughton etc), they're all about the same price ($500-ish for a blank), as soon as you are looking to spend $2000+ on a purpose-built target rifle you absolutely must have a match barrel.

Your "Choice 2" seems fine. You might consider choosing a 26", 28" or 30" barrel if you are willing to trade off length and toteability for (somewhat) better 600m+ performance. And maybe, choosing a 1-11" twist barrel instead of a 1-10" (depends what bullets you might like to shoot).

Your "Choice 3" is pricey though it is a wonderful and a good rifle. The delivery time might rule it out.

You might want to consider getting a custom rifle built. You don't have time to waste, but it's not necessarily out of the question yet.

Do you currently load ammo? Are you willing and interested in loading ammo, or would you prefer instead to just pay up and buy ammo? For shooting out to 600, commercial match ammo is fine (though pricey). For shooting at 1000y it is quite challenging to get good enough commercial ammo (it does exist, but most commercial match ammo is not competitive at 1000y).
 
For the kind of money you are willing to spend I would look at doing a custom build for sure, not some off the shelf rig that everyone has, contact Peter at Hirsch Precision he will help you out and get you a real nice rig. As said above though you might want to consider a longer barrel and better optics.
 
Well, I'm just wondering what blacktemplar thinks. He's logged in without a word to some very important advise and questions.

I've seen this exact scenario before a few times.
Young man with money buys top of the line tactical rifle.
Did his research via the internet and shows up with rifle to the range for the first time.
Proceeds to get frustrated as to why the equipment isn't working to spec.
Observes everyone else hit the bullseye with their rifles while he struggles.
Packs up and never seen again.

The last part is the hardest thing for me to watch. Please blacktemplar, don't get too far ahead of yourself.
Spend your money wisely on something well planned.

You will always get lots of advise on getting tactical rifles here at CGN and nothing wrong with that if that's all you want.
Many buy those rifles just to have them to look cool and we never get any range reports from them.
You did mention you will compete in the ORA, so don't limit yourself unless all you want is just the "Precision Matches" section only like maynard said.
That's a lot of dough just for the small part of the ORA.
 
Some of the advice you are getting in this thread is coming from some of the best, most competitive shooters in the country, and none are particularly excited about your choices. This might suggest that you need to start over.
 
tiriaq said:
Some of the advice you are getting in this thread is coming from some of the best, most competitive shooters in the country, and none are particularly excited about your choices. This might suggest that you need to start over.
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Ditto.... And why the bushnell? Your obv not shy To spend the coin on gear
 
Hi all - it's pretty easy to misunderstand people on the Intertubes.

How about cutting everybody, especially the OP, a little slack and be a bit generous with the benefit of the doubt?
 
OP - another idea may be to buy something like a Sako TRG with 20" barrel and a Savage F Class rifle. Cost will be competitive with what your options price out to be and the Sako TRG will be an outstanding ( and cool-looking ) tactical rifle while the Savage F Class will be an excellent rifle with which to compete at matches. .308 is a relatively easy load to develop and is a fun round to shoot. While I don't normally recommend using one scope for two applications you may in this case consider a NF NXS 8-32 which will be tactical enough for the Sako and adequate for the early years of F class competition.
 
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