lejarretnoir
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- 162km from Connaught
Jerry, he won't be doing any Tac style matches at the ORA Precision Match. All prone.
Running and gunning doesn't happen there.
Running and gunning doesn't happen there.
Decisions Decisions
- Thread starter blacktemplar07
- Start date
Mystic Precision
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Summerland, BC
If brakes are allowed, then I would upsize to 6.5-284 and 7WSM - Maybe even the 7RM since you can get a mag to work. confirm with the range template
Bore life be damned
28 to 30" barrels.
Sounds like really noisy F class
Jerry
PS See how a simple change in application can change the rifle completely.
Bore life be damned
28 to 30" barrels.
Sounds like really noisy F class
Jerry
PS See how a simple change in application can change the rifle completely.
Last edited:
lejarretnoir
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- 162km from Connaught
I studied at Waterloo where it's known as a Engineer University.
I remember many aspiring engineers and their mathematical modules. It was very entertaining listening to them describing the world and universe in pure mathematics.
Some of my best friends went there.
I remember many aspiring engineers and their mathematical modules. It was very entertaining listening to them describing the world and universe in pure mathematics.
Some of my best friends went there.
Mystic Precision
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Summerland, BC
36Cx24Wx35 = (2K + D )/ H
One of life's more useful formulas...
Jerry
One of life's more useful formulas...
Jerry
shaolin555
CGN Regular
- Location
- Southern Ontario
36" chest, 24" waist, 35" long legs = 2 kids + divorce... Leaving in"H"alf your sh*t haha I shoulda been an engineer
Best advise I can give if you're becoming a mechanical engineer and have the space, is to take that $(and then some) and put it toward a decent little lathe and mill.
Out of about a 100 engineers I've talked/worked with on various projects, the few that stuck out as beyond brilliant were also able to make just about anything they put on paper and to justify why they put it there, and only maybe 2-3 that actually were just plain brilliant without those added skills, but they also had no problem asking for input from shops/machinists/assembly, or whoever was making the final product and working out how to make it cost effective.
With that you'll be able in time to put your own rifles together(fun), maybe come up with some pretty cool stuff, along with getting a much better understanding of how things are made and how to save your employers $$$.
Make sure to always keep a good professional relation with your vendors if you ever deal direct with them, you'd be surprised how often we can save an engineers behind, or let them sink.
As with the machines and the guns, always play safe.
Out of about a 100 engineers I've talked/worked with on various projects, the few that stuck out as beyond brilliant were also able to make just about anything they put on paper and to justify why they put it there, and only maybe 2-3 that actually were just plain brilliant without those added skills, but they also had no problem asking for input from shops/machinists/assembly, or whoever was making the final product and working out how to make it cost effective.
With that you'll be able in time to put your own rifles together(fun), maybe come up with some pretty cool stuff, along with getting a much better understanding of how things are made and how to save your employers $$$.
Make sure to always keep a good professional relation with your vendors if you ever deal direct with them, you'd be surprised how often we can save an engineers behind, or let them sink.
As with the machines and the guns, always play safe.
- Location
- Northern Ontario
Are there run and gun matches in Ontario?
If brakes are allowed, then I would upsize to 6.5-284 and 7WSM - Maybe even the 7RM since you can get a mag to work. confirm with the range template
Bore life be damned
28 to 30" barrels.
Sounds like really noisy F class
Jerry
PS See how a simple change in application can change the rifle completely.
I'm a little hesitant to get into the more specialized calibers, between the significant drop in barrel life particularly with the need for a lot of practice and perhaps the less available reloading information for those calibers, at least in comparison to .308. I'll consider it though.
I know exactly what you mean, I can see how you got that from my first post, but I'm sure if you got to know me, I'm a pretty modest guy in general.
Didn't go to Waterloo, I went to school at Saint Francis Xavier University and Dalhousie University both for Engineering. I liked math a lot up until differential equations then I just was not getting it anymore.
Hahah I like it, Haven't heard that one before.
I am not a Mechanical Engineer, I actually work as a Mining Engineer, same relations with machinists goes with miners, those guys know some things that it takes a lifetime to learn. With that being said, as much as I can draft whatever I could possibly imagine, I dont have the skills to make them, at least right now anyways so lathe, and mill kinda out of the picture haha.
Mystic Precision
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Summerland, BC
rimfires will last at least 100,000 rds of fire so you will not wear it out any time soon.
Sure a 7RM will wear BUT you asked about putting a competitive rig together.
Plenty of load data for that....
If you want to win races, you don't worry about swapping out tires.
Until you make a decision on what your priorities are, this will go round and round with not a thing decided. Pick your poison, build your rifle, go have some fun.
Lead downrange is about the only real teacher there is.
Jerry
Sure a 7RM will wear BUT you asked about putting a competitive rig together.
Plenty of load data for that....
If you want to win races, you don't worry about swapping out tires.
Until you make a decision on what your priorities are, this will go round and round with not a thing decided. Pick your poison, build your rifle, go have some fun.
Lead downrange is about the only real teacher there is.
Jerry
- Location
- Northern Ontario
I hear what your saying and trust me, I'm not idle in my position, your input has helped changed my mind.
I've scrapped option #1, and option #2 has to be changed to 24" or 26" and if i get the AI AE it'll be a 24" I can also save a solid ~$400 not getting the folder either. Sure the 20" can compete, but the extra velocity from the 24" or 26" is gonna buck the wind better, and moving to a different caliber is going to help the bc and again in bucking the wind which is what i'll be terrible at doing off the bat anywho.
The brake really isn't needed either, after serious consideration between annoying other shooters and the fact that the last time I shot a .308 it was on a 7lb hunting rifle not 15lb target rifle, recoil is gonna be a bit different there. I may get it with the AI as I believe it isn't a cost added option, but not the custom build i think. Put the extra money into glass or a better action.
I know you are repeating some of your own points and some other points here, but I'm trying to get a consensus on things rather than acting on an individuals opinion.
Thanks again for the help.
lejarretnoir
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- 162km from Connaught
In the ORA there is Service Rifle and CQB which requires an AR15 or semi auto equivalent. CQB requires a pistol also.
There is one other option and it's with the OSA run by Keith and Linda. Google Milcun.
It's as close as you're going to get to SWAT, Police, Military type stuff using a bolt gun, AR15 and pistol, but they usually use all three in their events IIRC. Keith is an ex-combat sniper and offers courses. I learned a lot from him ages ago.
Others can comment if there's something else.
Bolt action only events you already know.
There is falling plates event that I believe includes a 100m run from 900m to 800m, but that is the extent of it.
With respect to the brake, you may want to reconsider this. Even a heavy 308 will come off target due to recoil (I know this well), and some of the stages do include rapid follow up shots. If money is not a huge obstacle for you then might consider a removable brake; if you do need to remove it for courtesy or rules you'll still have that option but will gain the benefit when most of your competitors will be doing the same. My new Precision rig is a relatively tame 6.5x47 and I'll be putting one on it.
With respect to the brake, you may want to reconsider this. Even a heavy 308 will come off target due to recoil (I know this well), and some of the stages do include rapid follow up shots. If money is not a huge obstacle for you then might consider a removable brake; if you do need to remove it for courtesy or rules you'll still have that option but will gain the benefit when most of your competitors will be doing the same. My new Precision rig is a relatively tame 6.5x47 and I'll be putting one on it.
As far as stability of bedding goes, most any stock with an aluminum bedding block, or a good epoxy/pillar bedding job will be just fine.
Apart from that, it is the ergonomics of the stock that matter. Spending a grand on a factory stock doesn't mean that it will fit you.
Recently had occasion to work on a Pierce action. Very nice indeed. There are other high quality options.
Very sweet shooting rifles can be set up without spending the sort of money your Option 2 requires.
You refer to not wanting to annoy other shooters by using a brake. If you shoot the precision matches with ORA, OSA, DCRA, you will find many brakes, and no annoyed shooters. Good hearing protection works. Apart from making any rifle more comfortable and easier to shoot, you can often observe your own bullet splash and bullet swirl.
If you want to learn a lot about shooting in an effective and efficient manner, go to osacanada.ca or milcun.com, and consider the commercial milcun offered courses. They are not cheap, but the instruction is absolutely first class, and you will benefit. You do not even need to own a rifle; a competitive rifle and quality ammunition can be supplied along with the related gear.
Apart from that, it is the ergonomics of the stock that matter. Spending a grand on a factory stock doesn't mean that it will fit you.
Recently had occasion to work on a Pierce action. Very nice indeed. There are other high quality options.
Very sweet shooting rifles can be set up without spending the sort of money your Option 2 requires.
You refer to not wanting to annoy other shooters by using a brake. If you shoot the precision matches with ORA, OSA, DCRA, you will find many brakes, and no annoyed shooters. Good hearing protection works. Apart from making any rifle more comfortable and easier to shoot, you can often observe your own bullet splash and bullet swirl.
If you want to learn a lot about shooting in an effective and efficient manner, go to osacanada.ca or milcun.com, and consider the commercial milcun offered courses. They are not cheap, but the instruction is absolutely first class, and you will benefit. You do not even need to own a rifle; a competitive rifle and quality ammunition can be supplied along with the related gear.
shaolin555
CGN Regular
- Location
- Southern Ontario
If there's ever a time to use the use the phrase "money well spent" it would be here!
Mystic Precision
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Summerland, BC
I have said many times, there is no 1 right answer to any task. We all have our "bestest" solution. Look at the match gear of the top 10 shooters at ANY precision match, except for the fact that all 10 would use a firearm, I doubt you will see more then 3 even remotely the same.
Reviewing my team gear list, except for the chambering dictated by rules, all our rigs vary in all manner, shape and size AND we compete to try and beat the best.
Consensus on what is right for you is unlikely to happen here. Sure, you will hear comments which agree in part to what you want to hear BUT when you ask about a competition rig, the options will be very specific and varied.
build the rifle that you feel will meet YOUR goals and come out to a match and have some fun. Maybe it works, maybe you tweak it. Just doesn't matter.
Newbies seem obsessed to find that one perfect whatever their very first time. This is not marriage so enjoy all the options and toys as you see fit. Anyone that shoots (and that is a big emphasis on SHOOT) will be changing their gear on a regular basis.
AND no matter how expensive your rig might seem, the cost of shooting and competing makes the actual rifle a small part of the overall experience.
Right now, you are trying to monkey brain what a rig should be by cross examining answers from shooters you don't know. You will certainly spend the rest of this year chasing that dream.
In my business, I constantly get the "why does it take so long to get a part?" when really the main time waster was the months and months that preceded while the customer didn't act on ORDERING THEIR PARTS.
good luck..
Jerry
PS, I have begun sourcing parts for what I will need for 2014 season. Some stuff may not even get here in time.
"Anyone that shoots (and that is a big emphasis on SHOOT) will be changing their gear on a regular basis."
Jerry is 100% correct here - in part, your tastes will change and in part you will simply find that some things work better for you than others. It will be a rare thing to find a regular shooter sticking with what he or she first purchased.
Jerry is 100% correct here - in part, your tastes will change and in part you will simply find that some things work better for you than others. It will be a rare thing to find a regular shooter sticking with what he or she first purchased.
Mystic Precision
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Summerland, BC
From the view of F class, a new bullet and the gear list changes in a moment.
Right now, testing 2 twist rates, 7 bullets in weights from 155.5 to 215gr (the 155.5 will get dropped as I am only looking beyond 700yds), 2 powders, 2 primers. When the snow melts, this list will narrow to likely 3 bullets.
While doing all this, a new stock design is being prototyped and tested.
Next batch of barrels ordered for 2014 will have different twist rates. Why? Matches will be shot at lower elevation and higher humidity.....
And this is with something that is tried and true.... Yeah, right.
Then there are those who want to play in F Open. This class will see some very interesting changes into the next 2 season. Alliant is planing to release new powders in 2013. Berger new bullets. I can only expect Sierra and Hrn to follow on their heels. All of this will change what is competitive and what being competitive requires.
Jerry
Right now, testing 2 twist rates, 7 bullets in weights from 155.5 to 215gr (the 155.5 will get dropped as I am only looking beyond 700yds), 2 powders, 2 primers. When the snow melts, this list will narrow to likely 3 bullets.
While doing all this, a new stock design is being prototyped and tested.
Next batch of barrels ordered for 2014 will have different twist rates. Why? Matches will be shot at lower elevation and higher humidity.....
And this is with something that is tried and true.... Yeah, right.
Then there are those who want to play in F Open. This class will see some very interesting changes into the next 2 season. Alliant is planing to release new powders in 2013. Berger new bullets. I can only expect Sierra and Hrn to follow on their heels. All of this will change what is competitive and what being competitive requires.
Jerry
- Location
- Beaverlodge, Alberta
If I may stick my very new guy .02 worth in here...I'm still just getting out of the gate as well shooting an out of the box savage model 12 fcv.
Why not while you are deciding on a competitive custom rig just go buy an off the shelf .223 to play with while you get things together? .223 is tough to reload for but I think with the help of the gentlemen on here it is definitely do able. I've been making improvements to what my out of the box rifle will do in leaps and bounds, and it has been making its shooter better in leaps and bounds at the same time. I read on here probably at least a couple hours a week, and trust me things that I never would have learned on my own which seem like total no brainers come up all too often. If you bought a good heavy barrelled 223 now then when your match rifle is ready in late summer you could have several thousand rounds out there already with a caliber that is fairly picky and wind sensitive. Plus you may learn what you need on your custom rifle as you go.
Besides it will get you shooting ASAP. Nothing beats going out and popping milk jugs at 500m to make you want to improve your shooting. Same for gongs or whatever you shoot, soon enough it'll be function well over form.
Again just my newb .02
Why not while you are deciding on a competitive custom rig just go buy an off the shelf .223 to play with while you get things together? .223 is tough to reload for but I think with the help of the gentlemen on here it is definitely do able. I've been making improvements to what my out of the box rifle will do in leaps and bounds, and it has been making its shooter better in leaps and bounds at the same time. I read on here probably at least a couple hours a week, and trust me things that I never would have learned on my own which seem like total no brainers come up all too often. If you bought a good heavy barrelled 223 now then when your match rifle is ready in late summer you could have several thousand rounds out there already with a caliber that is fairly picky and wind sensitive. Plus you may learn what you need on your custom rifle as you go.
Besides it will get you shooting ASAP. Nothing beats going out and popping milk jugs at 500m to make you want to improve your shooting. Same for gongs or whatever you shoot, soon enough it'll be function well over form.
Again just my newb .02
- Location
- Beaverlodge, Alberta
Yes absolutely! I've been shooting it every chance I get, which is only one day every two weeks in the winter. Still, I have a bit over 500rds through it and am starting to find what it really likes ammo wise. I built a custom (removable) cheek rest for it and bedded it with Devcon but other than that its exactly how you sent it. I'd like to put an SIII on it soon, other than that I'm going to shoot it until the barrel is dead then rebarrel and keep it for yotes.
My wife tried it last weekend, should have seen the look on her face. Now she wants one in left hand.
